ECT Two MAD errors that block them together from the truth

Interplanner

Well-known member
The Dan 9 6 accomplishments are all about his Gospel. People will keep sinning, but Christ will do what Israel could not do. That's why Israel the nation is ruined (the last verse), but there is still forgiveness.

Up to this point, I think Daniel, and most in Israel, thought that forgiveness meant day to day blessing. But the answer to Daniel's prayer here goes two directions on that. The sins are atoned for, but the nation goes to decimation. But the covenant that is coming is not just about Israel anymore. It is NEW. New parties. New bases.

The man of sin is only in the end of Dan 9 in the last verse, where he ruins the place in his rebellion, the same as 8:13. This is how Josephus the priest understood it, and this is what Caiaphas tried to circumvent in Jn 12. If there is a surprise to the NT (or to Judaism in the NT) it is that they didn't call Christ AC, although I guess sometimes calling him The Blasphemer was in reference to the man of sin figure, by mistake.
 

Danoh

New member
The Dan 9 6 accomplishments are all about his Gospel. People will keep sinning, but Christ will do what Israel could not do. That's why Israel the nation is ruined (the last verse), but there is still forgiveness.

Up to this point, I think Daniel, and most in Israel, thought that forgiveness meant day to day blessing. But the answer to Daniel's prayer here goes two directions on that. The sins are atoned for, but the nation goes to decimation. But the covenant that is coming is not just about Israel anymore. It is NEW. New parties. New bases.

The man of sin is only in the end of Dan 9 in the last verse, where he ruins the place in his rebellion, the same as 8:13. This is how Josephus the priest understood it, and this is what Caiaphas tried to circumvent in Jn 12. If there is a surprise to the NT (or to Judaism in the NT) it is that they didn't call Christ AC, although I guess sometimes calling him The Blasphemer was in reference to the man of sin figure, by mistake.

That is you reading your 1P into all that.

Daniel 9 is clear that Israel's restoration is in mind; the angel Gabriel reaffirms as much to Zachariah; and to Mary in Luke 1 and 2, as does the Spirit Himself there.

All of which is based on the fact of Gabriel's words to Daniel...

Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

On OT promises.

Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

9:16 O LORD, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luke 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

I know; Mary was just confused by Judaism.

Nonsense.

Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Do you even know the sense of Luke 1:67's "Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,"?

It is...

2 Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

It is...

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You simply refuse to believe the passages' own witness; you simply refuse to look at those passages in light of the passages.

As with those countless supposed Bible "based scholars" - who deny the Exodus because the passages do not match their handed down errors.
 
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Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Daniel 8
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.


Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.



Don't be a dummy. It's the same event performed by the man of sin.
Don't let your desire for it to be something else influence you to not believe the simple words.

By reason of transgression of the churches, allows the man of sin to arise.

You use that term which is nowhere in Daniel is it?

You can not see that the son of perdition of the end is a many person people who fall away from the truth as Judas the first son of perdition did, as also mentioned here--

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


You think the temple of God here mentioned is a stone temple in Jerusalem.

Nothing could demonstrate your blindness to the truth better than that.

LA
 

Danoh

New member
This time it's Interplanner's thread - you won't be able to close it when you continue to fail to make your case, but want your way; Lazy :chuckle:

I would suggest you roll up your hair and get to exegeting every word and or phrase in 2 Thess. 2:4.

Via verse with verse...
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
That is you reading your 1P into all that.

Daniel 9 is clear that Israel's restoration is in mind; the angel Gabriel reaffirms as much to Zachariah; and to Mary in Luke 1 and 2, as does the Spirit Himself there.

All of which is based on the fact of Gabriel's words to Daniel...

Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

On OT promises.

Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

9:16 O LORD, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake. 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Luke 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 1:54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

I know; Mary was just confused by Judaism.

Nonsense.

Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Do you even know the sense of Luke 1:67's "Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,"?

It is...

2 Samuel 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

It is...

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You simply refuse to believe the passages' own witness; you simply refuse to look at those passages in light of the passages.

As with those countless supposed Bible "based scholars" - who deny the Exodus because the passages do not match their handed down errors.




Dan 9's ending does not care for or announce any future for Israel, yet it's vision is the answer to the prayer, unless of course, you take your authority and final interp from MADs which means anything could be the answer to the prayer!

Those are lovely psalms during the nativity and they found out what they would mean! Redemption for Jerusalem would not mean the same thing anymore, and the opportunity was lost to salvage the city on earth, but what does it matter if there is one above?

Luke is not giving Mary Judaism; he's the partner of Paul. It is the new paradigm that is coming. Even when it sounds like the old, the new meaning trumps what is there.
 

Danoh

New member
"...the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Sure a new paradigm is coming; because you say so :chuckle:
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
"...the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."

Sure a new paradigm is coming; because you say so :chuckle:



Because Rom 1's intro says so, and Luke was Paul's ministry partner. The ONLY other explanation of David in Romans is that he was justified by Christ.

"It is too small a thing to restore the fortunes of Israel (from the Babylonian captivity); I will make you a light to the nations."
 

Danoh

New member
Because Rom 1's intro says so, and Luke was Paul's ministry partner. The ONLY other explanation of David in Romans is that he was justified by Christ.

"It is too small a thing to restore the fortunes of Israel (from the Babylonian captivity); I will make you a light to the nations."

Romans 1 is in light of Israel's TEMPORARY FALL...

The actual sense of the very passage you just now quoted is repeated in passages like...

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Both the faith OF GOD to HIS DETERMINED will as to Israel AND the fact that He IS God is why it was/is a small matter; or piece of cake, for Him to restore Israel towards HIS intent IN ye sons of Jacob.

We perceive their intended sense differently because we approach them differently.

And when it comes to these matters, you are ever perceptually clueless - there's your PC :chuckle:

Talk about the height of obtuse - the very phrase "ye sons of Jacob" speaks of this DETERMINED Will of God IN Jacob.

You are dense, dense, dense...

Stick to the only thing you appear clear on - faith without works.

Come to think of it; you probably botch that up adding a requirement of some kind to faith - like a sinner's prayer or some other "work."
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
By reason of transgression of the churches, allows the man of sin to arise.

You use that term which is nowhere in Daniel is it?

You can not see that the son of perdition of the end is a many person people who fall away from the truth as Judas the first son of perdition did, as also mentioned here--

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


You think the temple of God here mentioned is a stone temple in Jerusalem.

Nothing could demonstrate your blindness to the truth better than that.

LA

:chuckle:

What a mess the LA Freeway is.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Romans 1 is in light of Israel's TEMPORARY FALL...

The actual sense of the very passage you just now quoted is repeated in passages like...

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Both the faith OF GOD to HIS DETERMINED will as to Israel AND the fact that He IS God is why it was/is a small matter; or piece of cake, for Him to restore Israel towards HIS intent IN ye sons of Jacob.

We perceive their intended sense differently because we approach them differently.

And when it comes to these matters, you are ever perceptually clueless - there's your PC :chuckle:

Talk about the height of obtuse - the very phrase "ye sons of Jacob" speaks of this DETERMINED Will of God IN Jacob.

You are dense, dense, dense...

Stick to the only thing you appear clear on - faith without works.

Come to think of it; you probably botch that up adding a requirement of some kind to faith - like a sinner's prayer or some other "work."


You're ridiculous, Danoh, because I was referring once again to 1:3-4. he was the son of David and the resurrection declared him to be the Son of God. Not a Bible passage or other self declaration. The Resurrection itself, because as we know from Acts 13's sermon and Rom 4:25, he was raised because his work was approved, satisfactory to the Judge.

I was not referring to the degeneration passage, which you might have noticed has no reference to David.

You are too full of yourself, your madness, your knowledge to be regarded as acquainted with the Bible.
 
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