Trumpcare will throw people off healthcare?

[Ktoyou]

Sooner, or later, it will come down to a single provider programme, were all but the well-off receive health coverage.

All this doing, and failure to do, will be proof the anternative does not work, and, as it is, the AHCA will fall apart on its own. Thise is obvious to me, United Healthcare, leaving because it is not profitable. You not force any individual to do business with a private enterprise, now Anthem is leaving the AHCA too.

You cannot force a private company to do business,, which will lead to government healthcare.

 

[patrick jane]

Sooner, or later, it will come down to a single provider programme, were all but the well-off receive health coverage.

All this doing, and failure to do, will be proof the anternative does not work, and, as it is, the AHCA will fall apart on its own. Thise is obvious to me, United Healthcare, leaving because it is not profitable. You not force any individual to do business with a private enterprise, now Anthem is leaving the AHCA too.

You cannot force a private company to do business,, which will lead to government healthcare.

True, if it's not profitable to sell insurance, then why do it?

 

[Ktoyou]

True, if it's not profitable to sell insurance, then why do it?

Right, it can be said, private insurance fits this business model. Yet, as it is under AHCA, it does not offer enough profit. Using a middle-man to profit of the poor and sick does not work, will not work.

See elections in Nov 2018 for a run on the House and Senate.

I don't really like it, but it is what it is.

 

[jeffblue101]

Conservatives like "jeffblue" decry the compulsory component of Obamacare, but remain silent on the multitude of other examples in a modern society whereby citizens are taxed or required to purchase services they neither need nor use!

honestly it doesn't even matter if Obamacare coverage mandates are technically universal or individual needs. All that matters is that these mandates created an insurance product so expensive that it caused millions of healthy Americans to pay the cheaper penalty.

The "FIX" for Obamacare is politically impossible to implement

 

[Ktoyou]

honestly it doesn't even matter if Obamacare coverage mandates are technically universal or individual needs. All that matters is that these mandates created an insurance product so expensive that it caused millions of healthy Americans to pay the cheaper penalty.

The "FIX" for Obamacare is politically impossible to implement

The government should not force anyone to purchase a service from a private vendor. The only real solution is universal government funded, by taxes, service for healthcare. Nothing else will ever work.

 

[exminister]

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independant, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these ends, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government shall become destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, & to institute new government, laying it's foundation on such principles & organising it's powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety & happiness.

That's the original draft you refer to.

Preservation of life does not stand alone if you seek to understand it's meaning. Look at the clause following it....

"that whenever any form of government shall become destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, & to institute new government".

It's talking about a government being destructive to preservation of life ....not being the guarantor of it.


Still, I'm all for emergency room treatment for people dying on the street even though it isn't mandated in our founding documents.

PENCE STATEMENT ON DEATH OF TERRI SCHIAVO
"America lost not only a precious citizen, America lost its innocence."
Washington, Apr 1 - U.S. Congressman Mike Pence issued the following statement regarding the death of Terri Schiavo:
"I grieve with the Schindler family and millions of Americans at the death of their precious daughter, Terri Schiavo. With her death, America lost not only a precious citizen, America lost its innocence.
"Although Terri Schiavo's life may be over, the debate over the rights of incapacitated Americans is not over. Congress must right this wrong by ensuring that incapacitated Americans may not be deprived of their inalienable right to life without the assurance of the due process of law that our federal courts were established to protect. This will be Terri Schiavo's legacy."

http://www.priestsforlife.org/euthanasia/congressmanpence.htm

 

[exminister]

A comment I read and thought it was germane

Free markets work great when the product is as generic as a gallon of gasoline or milk, an apple or a bushel of wheat, but when the nature of what is being purchased is as complex and uncertain as a medical diagnosis or treatment (or an arcane legal insurance contract) that depends as much on the condition and capacity of the buyer as the proficiency - and efficiency - of the seller, choice becomes an impossible task even for the well trained. And for ordinary Americans, it is a total nightmare. I wish I only needed to say this once: the health care industry and the insurance industry are in an incestuous relationship where it is really in both their interests' to charge as much as the market will bear and the consumer's only power is to forego treatment or coverage or both. We don't really have the circumstance of a willing and informed buyer relating to a willing and informed seller over something that is objectively fixed and understood. We have frightened consumers facing two black boxes: one is a health coverage system designed to cannibalize the rest of the economy and the other is a coffin. We the People have put up with this willful insanity for far too long and it's long past time we did what every other modern country has done - namely make at least basic health care a public good managed and delivered by competent and dedicated public health officials. We don't have the luxury of becoming a nation of 320 million insurance experts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...796f3c-5ca7-11e7-aa69-3964a7d55207_story.html

 

[The Barbarian]

The fact is, the Senate Bill is Obamacare lite, with lavish tax cuts for the friends of the Senate leaders, and tens of millions of people losing healthcare, according to the republicans' own budget office.

Don't see how that can be attractive to any American, unless it's the padrones of Mitch McConnel and Co.

 

[jeffblue101]

The fact is, the Senate Bill is Obamacare lite, with lavish tax cuts for the friends of the Senate leaders, and tens of millions of people losing healthcare, according to the republicans' own budget office.

Don't see how that can be attractive to any American, unless it's the padrones of Mitch McConnel and Co.

2 things the CBO is non partisan so it doesn't belong to rebulicans. secondly the CBO attributes to the individual mandate an absurd level of coercion to the point that it projects that almost everyone will drop their current Obamacare insurance if the mandate is cut.

 

[expos4ever]

And they can keep their junk of a program...

How is our program "junk"? - we have at least the same expected lifespan as Americans for similar lifestyle and none of us go bankrupt when a health care crisis emerges. Canadians are virtually unanimous in their support of universal health care on both left and right sides of the spectrum.

 

[The Barbarian]

2 things the CBO is non partisan so it doesn't belong to rebulicans.

The Senate Leadership hires them. But yes, they are non-partisan. So we got an objective number from them.

secondly the CBO attributes to the individual mandate an absurd level of coercion to the point that it projects that almost everyone will drop their current Obamacare insurance if the mandate is cut.

They only have past history to work with, and yes, it's an accurate estimate based on human behavior.

I notice that McConnell and Co. didn't even bother to argue with the analysis. There's no wiggle room there.

 

[The Barbarian]

How is our program "junk"? - we have at least the same expected lifespan as Americans for similar lifestyle and none of us go bankrupt when a health care crisis emerges. Canadians are virtually unanimous in their support of universal health care on both left and right sides of the spectrum.

The republicans were warning each other of this, back when Obamacare was being first debated. They said that if Americans got a taste of it, they'd never go back. And you see that's what's going on right now. No matter what the leadership tries to do, there are too many republicans who fear what their voters will do if they repeal and replace Obamacare.

 

[jeffblue101]

They only have past history to work with, and yes, it's an accurate estimate based on human behavior.

CBO scoring on the individual mandate effects has been terrible. Even if their current scoring were remotely true that would just mean Obamacare is so bad that no current consumer is willing to keep coverage without being forced to do so.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...incorrect-obamacare-projections/#2024ec0e46a7

When the ACA passed in 2010, CBO projected 21 million people would be enrolled in the exchanges in 2016. After the Supreme Court ruled that the Medicaid expansion was optional for states and not compulsory, CBO increased its projection of 2016 exchange enrollment to 22 million as some people who would otherwise have been enrolled in Medicaid in non-expansion states were then expected to enroll in the exchanges instead. Exchanges plans have proved much less attractive than expected as enrollment will average only about 10 million people this year. This means that CBO’s last projection of exchange enrollment before the exchanges opened overshot actual 2016 enrollment by 120 percent....

CBO’s model has consistently and significantly overestimated the effect of the individual mandate in inducing people to enroll in the exchanges. Since higher income people were supposed to be more affected by the mandate (the penalty increases with income), a less effective than expected mandate means that exchange enrollees are also much poorer than expected. If CBO has not adequately adjusted its model for its mistake about the effectiveness of the mandate, its estimates of bills to repeal and replace the ACA—which will almost certainly eliminate the individual mandate—will continue to incorporate this source of inaccuracy.

I notice that McConnell and Co. didn't even bother to argue with the analysis. There's no wiggle room there.

Paul Ryan
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/27/paul-ryan-cbo-score-on-health-care-is-misleading/

“What they’re basically saying at the Congressional Budget Office is if you’re not going to force people to buy Obamacare, if you’re not going to force people to buy something they don’t want, then they won’t buy it. So it’s not that people are getting pushed off a plan, it’s that people will choose not to buy something they don’t like or want,” Mr Ryan said on Fox News.
“And that’s the difference here. By repealing the individual and employer mandate, which mandates people buy this insurance that they can’t afford and don’t like, if you don’t mandate that they don’t do this then many people won’t do it,” he said

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX)

Let me tell you about CBO — I could care less about what CBO said,” Gohmert explained. “You know – they said Obamacare was going to be $1.1, 1.2 [trillion] and Obama calls Elmendorf, the director over at the Oval Office, woodsheds him awhile and he comes out and say, ‘You know, it’s probably around $800 billion.’ And then after it passes, they say ‘well, maybe it’s $1.7 [trillion] or so.’ Then we hear ‘well, more like $2.6 [trillion] over 15 [years] at least $4 trillion.’ So, I continue to say – any entity that’s margin of error is plus or minus 200-400 percent, they should not be scoring anything.”

 

[ClimateSanity]

The fact is, the Senate Bill is Obamacare lite, with lavish tax cuts for the friends of the Senate leaders, and tens of millions of people losing healthcare, according to the republicans' own budget office.

Don't see how that can be attractive to any American, unless it's the padrones of Mitch McConnel and Co.

People who earn four times the poverty rate should not be on Medicaid, hence the millions "losing" healthcare.

 

[ClimateSanity]

The republicans were warning each other of this, back when Obamacare was being first debated. They said that if Americans got a taste of it, they'd never go back. And you see that's what's going on right now. No matter what the leadership tries to do, there are too many republicans who fear what their voters will do if they repeal and replace Obamacare.

https://youtu.be/xO54hc9XTc0

 

[lifeisgood]

If the Senate health care bill becomes law, insurance companies will go from sellers of insurance to mere payers of medical bills. The only people who would buy policies would be the sick who have high medical bills that need paying. But with no healthy people buying policies, premiums would soar. Eventually it would be cheaper for sick people to pay their medical bills themselves, if they can actually afford to do so, rather than hiring an expensive third party that would simply add its own markup. The only way to keep a lid on premiums would be for massive, and ever increasing taxpayer subsidies to keep insurance companies operating in the black. Passage of this bill would ultimate guarantee the end of private health insurance and lead directly to a single payer, socialized medical system. If that is what Republicans want they should just come out and say so. Otherwise repeal Obamacare outright, and replace it with the free market. To do this the government must also repeal a lot of other legislation that undermines the free market, and remove all tax provided incentives for employer provided health insurance. That could be part of comprehensive tax reform that combines fewer deductions with lower rates. That allows Congress to kill two birds with one stone.

From Peter Schiff

:up:

Ain't gonna happen. They do not have the courage! They are all in the same basket. Almost 8 years to prepare and the best these people can bring to the table is Obamacare all over again? Shame on all of them.

 

[lifeisgood]

The republicans were warning each other of this, back when Obamacare was being first debated. They said that if Americans got a taste of it, they'd never go back. And you see that's what's going on right now. No matter what the leadership tries to do, there are too many republicans who fear what their voters will do if they repeal and replace Obamacare.

And what I underlined is the crux of the matter. They are afraid to lose their 'power'. Most of these people, if not all of them, are not men/women of integrity. Integrity takes courage. They demonstrate they have none.

 

[ClimateSanity]

And what I underlined is the crux of the matter. They are afraid to lose their 'power'. Most of these people, if not all of them, are not men/women of integrity. Integrity takes courage. They demonstrate they have none.

The Dems lost 1000 seats over 8 years due to Obamacare. If Republicans repeal Obamacare , they will actually gain seats.

 

[The Barbarian]

The Dems lost 1000 seats over 8 years due to Obamacare. If Republicans repeal Obamacare , they will actually gain seats.

Republicans seem to be convinced otherwise. Perhaps you could help them see the light.

 

[Rusha]

Republicans seem to be convinced otherwise. Perhaps you could help them see the light.

I am hoping for a repeal with no replacement ... considering a good portion of those who voted for Trump depend on the ACA and would get exactly what they voted for ... no health coverage.