Trump sez: Transgenders B gone!

[George Affleck]

Paul wrote Romans to the church at Rome. He wrote:

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

who were the "governing authorities" at Rome at the time?

The Romans had a particularly well structured and fair (by ancient standards) set of laws in place that actually benefited everyone in the Empire. The authorities were those who administered these laws. These were the magistrates who held considerable power and judges who decided cases.

It is untrue to suggest that, in cases where existing laws conflicted with Christian belief, Paul would have had his people deny the faith.
This means that the verse you have quoted has limits.

 

[ok doser]

to reiterate - my contention is that strict laws against adultery, swiftly enforced, would have a strong deterrent effect

glory, on the other hand, doesn't believe that laws act as a deterrent

and george doesn't think that laws have much of a deterrent effect

 

[George Affleck]

proscriptions against rape, theft and murder are not moral laws? :freak:

i disagree

I know.

That is where you have run off the rails.
Our present government is amoral - that is, not concerned about morality.
Laws are enacted and politicians are influenced one way or the other by those who have varying beliefs about morality and how many votes are at stake. But, in the end, penalties are assigned by public opinion, not a strict code of objective morality. The closest we have come to that concept is the abolition of slavery which, as you know, is not prohibited by scripture.

They are civil laws enacted and prosecuted, based on the current perception of the protection of individual rights and collective safety.
The government doesn't give a flip about God. To suggest that they can and should make decisions based on a morality they do not buy into is ludicrous.

 

[ok doser]

The Romans had a particularly well structured and fair (by ancient standards) set of laws in place that actually benefited everyone in the Empire.

well, perhaps not everyone, and perhaps not fair:

in fact, i would argue that the roman authorities were the most evil authorities imaginable, seeing that they killed the only innocent man

 

[ok doser]

The government doesn't give a flip about God.

george, in the American system, we are the government

i give a flip about God

but i have to contend with the likes of you who claim to but obviously don't

 

[George Affleck]

glory, on the other hand, doesn't believe that laws act as a deterrent

and george doesn't think that laws have much of a deterrent effect

Studies repeatedly show that what deters criminal behaviour is the certainty of being caught, not the severity of the punishment. Criminals almost never think about punishment. They are convinced that the best defense against punishment is not getting caught.

 

[quip]

Assumptions made:

Thinking that what you are 'seeing' you are able to process correctly.
That your definition of cohesion and consistency is a necessary goal or that you have the ability to recognize it.
That, as a non-peer and self appointed unbeliever, you can identify 'wayward' in any meaningful way.
Thinking that teaching by example is what is taking place.
That attempting to push buttons is not troll-like behaviour.

So, in otherwords I'm not part of the "god club" thus your assumption is that I've no capacity to speak thereof?

Assumptions indeed.

Perhaps, your defensive hubris is in dire need of some humbling perspective.

Get back to me when you guys begin to agree on how to consistently play god.

 

[George Affleck]

george, in the American system, we are the government

i give a flip about God

but i have to contend with the likes of you who claim to but obviously don't

Think again ostrich. That is what the American system used to be.
People like you want to give away more of that protection by giving your government the right to take your life based on hearsay evidence.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Studies repeatedly show that what deters criminal behaviour is the certainty of being caught, not the severity of the punishment. Criminals almost never think about punishment. They are convinced that the best defense against punishment is not getting caught.

God, through Solomon, says otherwise:

Because the sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. - Ecclesiastes 8:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes8:11&version=NKJV

 

[ok doser]

Think again ostrich. That is what the American system used to be.

then why not work toward a return to what we used to be?

People like you want to give away more of that protection by giving your government the right to take your life based on hearsay evidence.

that wasn't the case back when we had strong Godly laws regarding adultery, divorce, homoseuality, etc in the past

 

[Arthur Brain]

Think again ostrich. That is what the American system used to be.
People like you want to give away more of that protection by giving your government the right to take your life based on hearsay evidence.

In JR's case, I think he believes in substituting the present system with some kind of rule by monarchy, a king and essentially a lottery as to how this king is given power. He can expand on that if he wishes but essentially it still amounts to a legalistic state where guilt can be "ascertained" by two to three witnesses and rooted in the OT.

This is far right fundamentalism in action.

 

[ok doser]

November 14, 5:33 pm
artie launches an emotional tantrum telling me what a horrible person he thinks i am and then gets our hopes up:

... I'm not fussed about this forum anymore as it's dying...

...There's precious little traffic anymore and it's boring....

... I'm outta here....

doser makes an observation and a prediction:

this is only one in a looooong line of artie's claims to be leaving

he'll be back

November 19, 1:23 pm
artie returns and after launching another emotional tantrum telling me what a horrible person he thinks i am, promises:

...you're now going on the ignore list as whatever time I do spend on here will be better without you on the radar.

and then makes
1:

No, he really isn't...

2:

... at his disposal. I'm surprised he's been ...

3:

..,.this is the same guy who .... He's a tool.

4:

Nah, they were trolling.

5:

... doser...

6:

That doesn't matter to him.

yes, that's right 6 (count 'em, six :noway: ) posts about me:roses:

:darwinsm:


:mock:artie and his obsession with me :roses:

 

[glorydaz]

this appears to be where we went off the rails - can we agree that in the case of adultery, there is a third party who may be an innocent victim, but innocent or not, is a direct victim of the crime of adultery?

Things that are different are not the same.

i would add to that the children and families of the married couple torn asunder - they are directly victimized by the selfish actions of the adulterers - it was true in my case, in my sister's case, in my cousin's case - in the case of virtually everyone I know who has been affected by adultery - and it's depressing to sit here and count them all up in my head

Children suffer in intact families, too, for a lot of reason. Spousal abuse, child abuse, drug and alcohol abuse. Paren't screaming and yelling. You can't lock up everyone.

I ask again, why would anyone want to stay with someone who refuses to stop cheating...with someone who refuses to stop beating them...with someone who wants them dead if they dare stray?

as far as homosexuality goes, wrt the acceptance of perversion as the new normal, our society is directly affected

i often mock the cry of "think of the children!" but in this case there's no humor in it - chlidren are directly affected by teachers and leaders telling them that perversion is normal

here's a professional to explain it better than i can:

I don't believe homosexuality is the new norm.

 

[ok doser]

Things that are different are not the same.



Children suffer in intact families...

so your argument is that in the case of adultery there is no direct innocent victim?

I don't believe homosexuality is the new norm.

it's being taught as such from elementary school on up through the universities

societally, it is the new normal

 

[glorydaz]

well, perhaps not everyone, and perhaps not fair:

in fact, i would argue that the roman authorities were the most evil authorities imaginable, seeing that they killed the only innocent man

The Jews were guilty of that crime....not the Romans.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Things that are different are not the same.



Children suffer in intact families, too, for a lot of reason. Spousal abuse, child abuse, drug and alcohol abuse. Paren't screaming and yelling. You can't lock up everyone.

I ask again, why would anyone want to stay with someone who refuses to stop cheating...with someone who refuses to stop beating them...with someone who wants them dead if they dare stray?




I don't believe homosexuality is the new norm.

I've known women who have been in abusive relationships, not so much physical but emotional and this whole "adultery" thing is not so cut and dried. It's understandable when people in such seek some warmth elsewhere and that's not to say I condone affairs and flings in the main.

It's not black and white a lot of the time and in some cases the supposed "victim" is the catalyst because of their behaviour.

 

[glorydaz]

so your argument is that in the case of adultery there is no direct innocent victim?

When a killer is on the loose, we want him caught and punished so he can't kill again. Your claim seems to be that someone who commits adultery will be a danger to others. That's a big difference.

it's being taught as such from elementary school on up through the universities

societally, it is the new normal

Are you surprised? We live in a world of sin...that will get worse and worse until the Lord returns.

 

[glorydaz]

I've known women who have been in abusive relationships, not so much physical but emotional and this whole "adultery" thing is not so cut and dried. It's understandable when people in such seek some warmth elsewhere and that's not to say I condone affairs and flings in the main.

It's not black and white a lot of the time and in some cases the supposed "victim" is the catalyst because of their behaviour.

Yep.

 

[ok doser]

The Jews were guilty of that crime....not the Romans.

like saying the mother is guilty of killing her child and the abortionist isn't :nono:

 

[ok doser]

We live in a world of sin...that will get worse and worse until the Lord returns.

so we should just sit back, watch it all spiral down the drain and wait?