George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Let's make it clear then, so you will understand.
While you are falling asleep tonight, imagine what it is like to be buried alive.
When you have experienced that fear, then you will begin to understand.
Trump sez: Transgenders B gone!
- Thread starter ok doser
- Start date
Let's make it clear then, so you will understand.
While you are falling asleep tonight, imagine what it is like to be buried alive.
When you have experienced that fear, then you will begin to understand.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
You are not proposing to vest the responsibility for these laws in God's hands. If you were, we would not be disagreeing.
You want to take it out of God's hands and give it to the state.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I am the one defending God's ability to carry out vengeance in His timing remember?
You are the one who wants to give this power to the government.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
A comment from the spiritually confused.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Yep.
Though I'm not currently seeing much in the way of spiritual cohesion nor consistency at present. Perhaps, teaching the wayward by example seems not your forte.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
what is it that you think I don't understand?
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Tell me if you think Paul had in mind these types of men as being the "ministers of good" mentioned in Romans 13.
Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Nicolae Ceausescu, Adolf Hitler.
You are advocating handing your liberty over to a totalitarian regime. A totalitarian regime is one which exercises total, centralized state control over every aspect of public and private life. But it begins benignly with leftists like you.
If you are for giving government access to administering God's law, they will take it and use it against you. And when you finally decide they are misusing it and going too far, which you surely will, they will pay 3 witnesses to say in court that you committed adultery and you will be executed. Please tell me more about these ministers of good and the Utopian concept you have of trusting sinful men.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
...emperor nero....
you just don't really trust in God to get it right, do you george?
you think you can do it better :sigh:
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Assumptions made:
Thinking that what you are 'seeing' you are able to process correctly.
That your definition of cohesion and consistency is a necessary goal or that you have the ability to recognize it.
That, as a non-peer and self appointed unbeliever, you can identify 'wayward' in any meaningful way.
Thinking that teaching by example is what is taking place.
That attempting to push buttons is not troll-like behaviour.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
So is it your contention then that Paul had Nero in mind when he used the expression "ministers of good"?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Paul wrote Romans to the church at Rome. He wrote:
who were the "governing authorities" at Rome at the time?
| Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. |
who were the "governing authorities" at Rome at the time?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
then why have laws against murder, rape, theft?
why are you willing to give that power to the government and not trust in God's ability to carry out vengeance in His timing?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
george, george, george :sigh:
we used to have laws that were more closely aligned with God's Law - laws about divorce, laws about pornography, laws about adultery, laws about homosexuality, laws about abortion
and none of those things you fear occurred
in fact, if you examine those countries in which men lived under tyranny, they were universally those countries that turned away from God
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
this appears to be where we went off the rails - can we agree that in the case of adultery, there is a third party who may be an innocent victim, but innocent or not, is a direct victim of the crime of adultery?
i would add to that the children and families of the married couple torn asunder - they are directly victimized by the selfish actions of the adulterers - it was true in my case, in my sister's case, in my cousin's case - in the case of virtually everyone I know who has been affected by adultery - and it's depressing to sit here and count them all up in my head
as far as homosexuality goes, wrt the acceptance of perversion as the new normal, our society is directly affected
i often mock the cry of "think of the children!" but in this case there's no humor in it - chlidren are directly affected by teachers and leaders telling them that perversion is normal
here's a professional to explain it better than i can:
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Because those laws which govern day to day civil situations are not moral laws and do not pretend to mete out God's vengeance upon the wicked.
Encouraging a situation where a secular government applies punishment for immorality according to God's laws puts the judicial arm in charge of more than keeping the peace and making us safe, it charges them with overseeing morality. We are already seeing the problems today of a government who has wrested a once religious institution - marriage - from it's rightful place and now makes decisions for us, regardless of what God says about marriage, about what it is, and how it must be viewed. They have now redefined it because we allowed them in on the process. And we can't take it back because they will not relinquish it.
This is one of many modern day lessons to us to attempt, at all possible opportunities, to keep the governance of morality out of the hands of those who do not understand it and who will, ultimately, use it against us.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
proscriptions against rape, theft and murder are not moral laws? :freak:
i disagree
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
wrt the rest of your post - it appears that you're saying that because modern corrupt governments have perverted marriage, we shouldn't try to fix it, instead we should let them win and flood our society with more and more perversion?
i struggle to imagine what society will look like in fifty years, having observed what's happened in the last fifty
in the last fifty years, the following have been perverted by a government unwilling to apply God's Law, unwilling to resist the efforts of people like you who want to take God's Law out of the public sphere:
abortion
adultery
divorce
pornography
homosexuality
abortion
children are now taught by the government that all of those things are acceptable, "normal"
children are now being taught that a man cutting off his penis and having a "vagina" created in his pelvic cavity is "normal" and "courageous"
children are taught that the unborn child has no value, that it can be murdered at the whim of the mother
do you think this progression toward perversion and degradation will stop if its unopposed?
as i say, my imagination isn't agile enough to picture society in fifty years
i struggle to imagine what society will look like in fifty years, having observed what's happened in the last fifty
in the last fifty years, the following have been perverted by a government unwilling to apply God's Law, unwilling to resist the efforts of people like you who want to take God's Law out of the public sphere:
abortion
adultery
divorce
pornography
homosexuality
abortion
children are now taught by the government that all of those things are acceptable, "normal"
children are now being taught that a man cutting off his penis and having a "vagina" created in his pelvic cavity is "normal" and "courageous"
children are taught that the unborn child has no value, that it can be murdered at the whim of the mother
do you think this progression toward perversion and degradation will stop if its unopposed?
as i say, my imagination isn't agile enough to picture society in fifty years
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
and this is where it went off the rails with tam:
to reiterate - my contention is that strict laws against adultery, swiftly enforced, would have a strong deterrent effect
to reiterate - my contention is that strict laws against adultery, swiftly enforced, would have a strong deterrent effect