toldailytopic: What are your thoughts on Planned Parenthood?

[Nathon Detroit]

What I would like to see is Crisis Pregnancy Centers promoted and funded in the same way PP is so they could step in and offer the services I spoke of such as mammograms, prenatal care, etc.

What do you think about PP's false claim that they provide mammograms?

 

[Rusha]

What do you think about PP's false claim that they provide mammograms?

The same way I feel about any organization that makes false claims. It is wrong.

The last time I was in a PP was back in the 80's and at that time, I did read literature regarding mammograms and prenatal care.

 

[Maximeee]

Then I hope you don't have children. Principles and high ideals won't tuck them in at night after you have gone.

Oh, give me break, will ya? Yes, I am a mother. In fact, I'm a mother to a 3.5 year old girl & one on the way. I am doing my children a favor by showing them how important it is to stand by your principles, especially in a morally depraved world where killing the most innocent among us is a daily occurrence.

Just because I refuse to ever set foot in a PP, doesn't mean I refuse to seek medical care. There are plenty of other options, as ebenz stated.

Again, how can we trust an organization with our lives when they are the biggest child slaughterer in the country?! How can you go in there and trust them to save your life when they are brutally murdering the unborn in the room next to you?

 

[Ps82]

Personally, I have insurance, but PP was where I went in my youth.
But to answer you, I seriously doubt that a woman with a lump in her breast, whose only option for a mammogram was PP, would be overly concerned with their abortion policies.

When you aren't poor enough for the local health department clinic, yet you can't afford insurance, PP may mean the difference between life and death for a woman.

A drowning man doesn't worry about the ethics of the man who jumps in the water to save his life, and refuse to be saved because that man is a murderer, does he? No. He grabs the hand of someone who will help him live another day.

Drowning man is a good example. One has to be pretty desperate to get medical care from people who murder babies. I guess people who think they have no other choice, at the moment, can get their help from murders.

I do wonder if there are not other sources even now... what about Catholic charities? They don't just help Catholics do they? Maybe there are other choices too ... and would be more if our government was not so bent on sending bundles of our money to clinics that murder babies.

 

[Ps82]

You anti-choicers just don't get it. Abortions don't happen because of Planned Parenthood. They happen because there are so many poor women in America who cannot provide for children.
Anti-choicers could take bulldozers and bombs and destroy every PP facility, but this would do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop abortion in America.
If Planned Parenthood doesn't do it, others will. There will always be some one to perform abortions whether they are legal or not. You claim that fetuses don't "choose" to be aborted.
Well, children who are born into abject poverty,malnutrition and misery don't coose to be born into it either.
You have to realize this basic and simple fact - the more poverty there is in a country, the more abortions. The less poverty there is, the fewer abortions. This is why aboprtion is so rare in the prosperous countries of Europe, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, and Scandinavia. Abortion rates are much higher in the poorer countries of Eastern Europe which were in the Soviet Block.
We will never be able to reduce, let alone eliminate abortion in America until we do more to help the poor ,and poor pregnant women. Those who say there is plenty of help already and bring up the straw man of adoption are deluding themselves.
Anti-choicers are horrified about abortion but don't have enough sense to realize that if you make abortion illegal, you only INCREASE it, and endanger the lives and health of poor women .
If a Republican wins the White House this November, he or she will without a doubt greatly reduce help for the poor in this nation. This will only INCREASE the abortion rate.
Government-ordered compulsory childbearing for pregnant women does not work. It never has and never will. It is disastrously counterproductive and a death sentence for poor women . Every nation where abortion is illegal has more of them every year than those where it is legal. This is a fact.

The liberal community spreads the lies of sexual freedom and sells their promiscuity in every media outlet available ... to younger and younger audiences. Resulting in rampart sexual freedom which causes crisis pregnancies and crisis parenthood.

Then liberals offer the solution of murder to solve an already disgusting problem...

and the courts made sure that abortionists could murder the babies ... for prophet and without any accountability for murder.

These have all led to the most dangerous society for women and children in hundreds of years - maybe EVER!... and have given men the means to abuse women and their own off-spring ... without any accountability.

Liberals who support PP don't like women, men, or children in general. They are elitists, who only care about themselves. Their offering murder as a solution to a problem they created shows their lack of concern for the human race.

 

[jwp98]

Number of pregnancies in the USA annually--6 million

Number of abortions--1.2 million

Number of troops in Iraq at peak surge--167,000

Number of troops killed that year--967

Being an embryo is dangerous!

 

[Buzzword]

I tend to have a slightly more complicated view of this, rarely do I seem to have a very broad view once I start thinking about it.

First of all, my central concern with all this is the overpopulation of the earth. The more people there are, the more resources get stretched. Now, that is the broad end of it.

As for abortion, I do frown on late term abortions. I think the parents or parent should hopefully know a lot earlier whether or not they want a child. Abortion overall I think is a tragedy, and I view it more as something where a lesson ought to be learned by the participants in it.

As for PP then, well I don't exactly agree with it's portrayal in Knight's video if that is the truth. I ultimately think that sex is just for having kids. What actually needs to be eventually taught somehow or another, is just that. And what also needs to be taught is that the world may suffer overpopulation, people need to be educated more in a strong helping of Philosophy and thought in order to really know this.

A fascinating position, even though I disagree.

You seem to espouse that human sexuality exists for no other purpose than procreation, the animal instinct, while proposing that overpopulation should be prevented, a position which requires the human mind to apply itself on an existential level which no other animal needs or has use for.

I would contend, for myself and my wife, that human sexuality has grown beyond simply baby-making, at least in post-industrial human society.

Couples over the last century have discovered the bond-forming aspects of sexuality to greater and greater degrees, especially as scientific breakthroughs have allowed us to control our reproduction in similarly increasing increments.

Thus more and more couples are enjoying married life for longer periods of time before deciding to take off the saddles and let the gametes run free.

Running parallel to this trend is the early exploration of one's own sexuality in newly-pubescent teens.

In animalistic terms, these kids are ripe for breeding.
That the U.S. has legal boundaries in place to prevent adults from reproducing with them does not change the fact that they are in most cases physically capable of reproducing.

If we as a society do not want them to reproduce until they are self-sufficient as adults, why do so many people try to block their access to the chemicals which have been developed to prevent reproduction?
Without even entering the moral side of the argument, the above appears contradictory.

The discoveries and developments of the scientific community over the last half century provide methods for allowing our children to discover the wonderful world of sexuality for themselves in an at least moderately controlled chemical environment.

One of the amazing things Planned Parenthood does (and in many areas it is the only provider) is place control of one's reproduction in the hands of individuals at a far reduced cost from the standard pharmacy.

 

[Sherman]

This is a great video describing Planned Parenthood's business model. However I warn you this video contains GRAPHIC IMAGES.

Hooking Kids on sex

I got brave enough to actually watch this--well, it is just about the grossest you tube I have seen, but it had to be shown to display what PP is up to.

Planned Parenthood is a scam, bilking youth out of their innocence, then bilking the unborn out of their lives. This video underscores my point. Planned Un-Parenthood is pure evil. There is nothing redeeming about it.

 

[eameece]

I got brave enough to actually watch this--well, it is just about the grossest you tube I have seen, but it had to be shown to display what PP is up to.

Planned Parenthood is a scam, bilking youth out of their innocence, then bilking the unborn out of their lives. This video underscores my point. Planned Un-Parenthood is pure evil. There is nothing redeeming about it.

Your posts are just as gross as anything on you tube, because they are infected.

 

[King cobra]

Planned Parenthood sucks...literally.

 

[ideogenous_mover]

King Cobra, that picture is actually of Aborted Parenthood, not Planned Parenthood.

Sometimes these organizations have to be carefuller in naming themselves, its kind of like how people get annoyed when they read about the Christian Identity group and see a corruption of actual Christian Identity.

 

[Ps82]

You know what. I'll bet if more pro-life people sought out the pro-life centers in their states ... and gave support and funds to them ... there might be other opportunities for them to add medical services to poor people for free or at a lower lost cost.

Yet, even now as I write, Obama and his liberal cronies with their nationally mandated health care program are trying to regulate what they want all clinical providers to do and not to do.

Talk about a suppressive totalitarian government! It seems they hate the will of God and the people ... There mantra is on with murder and death, and power to those who control the government ... and victory to those elitists who hate God and humanity.

 

[ideogenous_mover]

You know what. I'll bet if more pro-life people sought out the pro-life centers in their states ... and gave support and funds to them ... there might be other opportunities for them to add medical services to poor people for free or at a lower lost cost.

that sounds like it would require the selfless surrender of wealth?

 

[ebenz47037]

You know what. I'll bet if more pro-life people sought out the pro-life centers in their states ... and gave support and funds to them ... there might be other opportunities for them to add medical services to poor people for free or at a lower lost cost.

Yet, even now as I write, Obama and his liberal cronies with their nationally mandated health care program are trying to regulate what they want all clinical providers to do and not to do.

Talk about a suppressive totalitarian government! It seems they hate the will of God and the people ... There mantra is on with murder and death, and power to those who control the government ... and victory to those elitists who hate God and humanity.

Guess what. I consider myself anti-abortion, not pro-life. And, over the years, I've helped out pregnant women by supporting them financially until the baby was born or until they (the pregnant women) could financially support themselves and their children. I've offered to adopt children that would have otherwise been aborted. Thank God that after seeing someone love them and their babies without wanting anything in return except for them to allow those babies to live, those women decided that they could love their babies. I also donate to various churches that sponsor pro-life centers, with specific requests for the money to go to them. I've also been known to take clothing, toys, and food to women's shelters.

But, I've said this before. I'm wondering why I bother repeating myself every three to six months about this topic. It seems that people only see what they want to see.

 

[WizardofOz]

that sounds like it would require the selfless surrender of wealth?

Selfless surrender of wealth....is that what they're calling taxes now?

 

[ideogenous_mover]

A fascinating position, even though I disagree.

You seem to espouse that human sexuality exists for no other purpose than procreation, the animal instinct, while proposing that overpopulation should be prevented, a position which requires the human mind to apply itself on an existential level which no other animal needs or has use for.

I would contend, for myself and my wife, that human sexuality has grown beyond simply baby-making, at least in post-industrial human society.

Couples over the last century have discovered the bond-forming aspects of sexuality to greater and greater degrees, especially as scientific breakthroughs have allowed us to control our reproduction in similarly increasing increments.

Thus more and more couples are enjoying married life for longer periods of time before deciding to take off the saddles and let the gametes run free.

Actually I do a lot of teetering around on this issue. I know what your saying, and I'm not actually against any of it. What I think I might be for, is a slight shifting of the locus by which we do advertise birth control, it is complex to explain.

and actually as a side-note which I just thought of, in the weird and cruel world of nature do we find the lioness killing cubs they cannot take care of, and I don't know that all animals have compassion for their old and sick, anyway I hope we don't exactly come to act like them.

Another issue is homosexuality which I would have to make an exemption for, I suppose.

Not all people or young people are going to have the same vision regarding sexual practices, and I'm not sure we should guide them toward exactly one vision. Rather try to let them pick their own sort of vision. Even though I am liberal, I believe that somewhere out there there is a definition for 'decadence.' Society may suffer from dimensions of decadence, I think at a certain point, porn and strip-joints may take over societies.

So, as a liberal, I am actually open to all visions. If one wishes to exercise piety, I believe that society needs it's 'holy people' too. There should be ads in the paper telling young people to join monasteries to compete with those ads telling them to purchase sex toys. A plurality of vision is required, along with a plurality of religion, of race, of culture.
<-- think I may have stumbled on a worthy point there in my rambling

Now, actually I'm starting to become wary of my own view, because it looks like it has a certain pull toward eugenics, the bit about sex being just for making kids yet wanting population control. I'm not really sure the human race should ever come to explore that... This whole issue is quite slick on the feet.

So with all that, maybe I'm not exactly the most consistent 'ideogenous mover' after-all, eh.

Running parallel to this trend is the early exploration of one's own sexuality in newly-pubescent teens.

In animalistic terms, these kids are ripe for breeding.
That the U.S. has legal boundaries in place to prevent adults from reproducing with them does not change the fact that they are in most cases physically capable of reproducing.

If we as a society do not want them to reproduce until they are self-sufficient as adults, why do so many people try to block their access to the chemicals which have been developed to prevent reproduction?
Without even entering the moral side of the argument, the above appears contradictory.

The discoveries and developments of the scientific community over the last half century provide methods for allowing our children to discover the wonderful world of sexuality for themselves in an at least moderately controlled chemical environment.

One of the amazing things Planned Parenthood does (and in many areas it is the only provider) is place control of one's reproduction in the hands of individuals at a far reduced cost from the standard pharmacy.

hmm, overall I'm thinking that some good solid philosophical teaching might work better than law. No, I'm not against the PP organization for those things people are saying like helping with mammograms or cheapening birth control and all that jazz.

other points you make I think I already covered.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Sure thing. Stating that I am opposed their practice of abortion is a good thing. :yawn:

Hooking Kids on sex

This must put pro life frauds like you between a rock and a hard place Rusha. How do you go about defeating the US' leading provider of abortion, while not defeating the sexual deviancy they promote at the same time?

I notice other pro life frauds like Ralphie, the counselor, Barbarian, and Arthur Brain were wise enough to stay clear of this thread (I see that Ralphie made one of his famous non committal posts), you should have done the same.

 

[Rusha]

This must put pro life frauds like you between a rock and a hard place Rusha.

:yawn: You aren't a real quick learner. I didn't watch the video just as I do not read any of the links you provide.

How do you go about defeating the US' leading provider of abortion,

Tsk tsk, no need to lie. I didn't defend them, never have. Providing OBG/GYN health care at a reduced cost is a good thing. Providing abortion is not ... it needs to be banned. EOS.

while not defeating the sexual deviancy they promote at the same time?

Considering the mountain loads of material that YOU post here in regards to what you claim is *sexual deviancy*, I am not the one with the problem. Just how much time do you spend scouring the internet looking for multitudes of pictures and stories you claim are deviant? :rotfl:

I notice other pro life frauds like Ralphie, the counselor, Barbarian, and Arthur Brain were wise enough to stay clear of this thread (I see that Ralphie made one of his famous non committal posts), you should have done the same.

The day I take advice from a deviant such as yourself will never come to pass, Officer.

Now feel free to find another member to stalk ... you are boring me.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

But, I've said this before. I'm wondering why I bother repeating myself every three to six months about this topic. It seems that people only see what they want to see.

Your words make a difference.... trust me.

The folks you repeat yourself to still have to go to bed at night. They might say they are comfortable with their position but they aren't. Nobody can have true peace with themselves when the stand on the side of the child murderer. And we all know that there have been plenty of folks to change their stance on abortion right here on TOL.

And that's why.... we got to keep on keeping on. :thumb:

 

[WizardofOz]

This must put pro life frauds like you between a rock and a hard place Rusha.

A pro-life fraud is someone who wants to prevent a state from protecting the children within its borders. A pro-life fraud is someone who would only allow the federal government to fix the "problem" that they created. A pro-life fraud is someone who's pro-life strategy is sitting on their hands waiting for a constitutional amendment.

What is your pro-life strategy? Has it changed? Your hands must be warm by now....