toldailytopic: The rapture. Do you believe it will happen? If so, when and how will i

[Nick M]

Irenaeus (c. 125–c. 202)

When in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.


Tertullian (c. 155–c. 225)
“As yet those whom the coming of the Lord is to find on the earth, have not been caught up into the air to meet Him at His coming” (TS, 55).


Caught up=Grk 'harpazo'=Latin/English transliteration 'rapture'

This is from a period which was quite a bit earlier than Darby, and Irenaeus is in direct discipleship lineage from the Apostle John.

And before that, the Lord Jesus Christ revealed it to Paul, who put it on paper. He said the departure of the church is before Jacob's trouble and the man of perdition is revealed. We are more than 10007 years from that point, yet there is still death, pain and tears.

Tet is a huge fraud, and I don't think he was ever a believer.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Thank you. Now, what do "post-trib" and "pre-trib" mean? People at my Church are divided on this issue.

"post-trib" is wrong and "pre-trib" is wrong.
Both are mistaken about the tribulation, so both get the timing of the rapture in relationship to the tribulation wrong.

The tribulation Jesus spoke of is the destruction of the Temple, the desolation of Israel, and the scattering of the children of Israel throughout all the nations (also called the Diaspora).

There is a false teaching which says that God's wrath on the children of Israel (the Tribulation) is not the Diaspora, but that He is still waiting to pour out His wrath on the children of Israel during the last seven years before the return of Jesus.

 

[Todah]

Shorter answer...the rapture

Who: The believers, in Christ.

What: Those believers are "caught up," "snatched" into the air, to join with Christ, and His angels, and the dearly departed.

When: At the end of the two thousand years- last days, since Jesus-Yeshua ascended into heaven. Approximately 2028-30 A.D.

Where: Into the air, then with Christ to the Mount of Olives and Israel.

Why: In order to stop the holocaust of the remnant of believers not killed by the antichrist and to thus end the Great tribulation, of the Jews and Christians......and so that we may be present to observe that vengeance, doth truly belong to the Lord.

How: By the power of the almighty God and the risen Christ.
The same power that produced the plagues upon proud Pharoah and Egypt, and delivered the Israelites out of his hand, by splitting the Red Sea

The GREATER EXODUS, is the RAPTURE.

 

[tetelestai]

Irenaeus (c. 125–c. 202)

When in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.” For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.

Irenaeus didn't say the same thing as Darby.

Darby invented the "rapture" that is followed by a 7 year Trib, and then a THIRD coming of Christ.

and Irenaeus is in direct discipleship lineage from the Apostle John.

Irenaeus said the Jews were: "disinherited from the grace of God."

So, not everything Irenaeus said was infallible truth.

 

[tetelestai]

Jesus thus makes His return to earth visible, and known to everyone, everywhere, whether saints or pagans.

(Rev 1:7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

It says that the people that pierced Him will see Him when He comes.

How is it possible for the men that pierced him almost 2,000 years ago to see Him if He comes in the yet future?

Where are these men that pierced Him right now?

Assuming these men (Romans) that pierced Him are not in Heaven right now, wouldn't these men have to be resurrected in order to see Him at this so called "rapture"?

That would mean that these Romans would have to be resurrected, watch Jesus "rapture" away all the Christians, then spend another 7 years on planet earth during the supposed "7 year Trib".

 

[tetelestai]

Paul, who put it on paper. He said the departure of the church is before Jacob's trouble

Huh?

Where did Paul say that?

Here is what the Bible says:

(Jer 30:7) Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

Are you claiming that the "he" is the church?

 

[Ed Walton]

Shorter answer...the rapture

Who: The believers, in Christ.

What: Those believers are "caught up," "snatched" into the air, to join with Christ, and His angels, and the dearly departed.

When: At the end of the two thousand years- last days, since Jesus-Yeshua ascended into heaven. Approximately 2028-30 A.D.

Where: Into the air, then with Christ to the Mount of Olives and Israel.

Why: In order to stop the holocaust of the remnant of believers not killed by the antichrist and to thus end the Great tribulation, of the Jews and Christians......and so that we may be present to observe that vengeance, doth truly belong to the Lord.

How: By the power of the almighty God and the risen Christ.
The same power that produced the plagues upon proud Pharoah and Egypt, and delivered the Israelites out of his hand, by splitting the Red Sea

The GREATER EXODUS, is the RAPTURE.

The Nation of Israel uses a lunar calendar of 360 days, not 365.
The corrected dates are: 2000 – 2002.
Just knit picking for fun.
Your right about the greater Exodus!

 

[tetelestai]

The Nation of Israel uses a lunar calendar of 360 days, not 365.
The corrected dates are: 2000 – 2002.

The Hebrew calendar (lunar) added a "leap month" to make up the difference.

There is 365.2 days in a year.

When the "leap months" are factored, every 40 years of the Hebrew calendar equals 365.2 days in a year.

BTW, I don't agree that there is a future "rapture"

 

[Nang]

The danger of believing in a supposed rapture, is that many place their trust and hopes in that event, rather than in the past event of the cross work of Jesus Christ.

They live their lives according to hopes of a "rapture" event, rather than living their lives according to hopes founded in the cross work of Jesus Christ on their behalf. Salvation becomes escape from this world; when the gospel message to Christians, is victory over this world.

Many look forward to escaping all troubles via a rapture event, rather than finding rest through faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and developing their lives around Him, rather than expectation of an "event."

There will be no supernatural "rapture." The scripture used to propose such an event, really speaks of the final resurrection at the end of time, when Jesus return to this earth the second time, to raise all souls to Judgment.

Nang

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

There will be no supernatural "rapture." The scripture used to propose such an event, really speaks of the final resurrection at the end of time, when Jesus return to this earth the second time, to raise all souls to Judgment.

Indeed.

Types and shadows of the OT have been fulfilled in Christ. And no U-turns will be made in redemptive history back to various types and shadows.

A commentary on Revelation that everyone should read:

Triumph of the Lamb- Dennis Johnson

For deeper study at the scholastic level (Greek assumed):

The Book of Revelation: A Commentary on the Greek Text (New International Greek Testament Commentary - G. K. Beale

And a classic that convinced me over thirty years ago :

The Bible and the Future- Anthony A. Hoekema

AMR

 

[steko]

The danger of believing in a supposed rapture, is that many place their trust and hopes in that event, rather than in the past event of the cross work of Jesus Christ.

They live their lives according to hopes of a "rapture" event, rather than living their lives according to hopes founded in the cross work of Jesus Christ on their behalf. Salvation becomes escape from this world; when the gospel message to Christians, is victory over this world.

Many look forward to escaping all troubles via a rapture event, rather than finding rest through faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and developing their lives around Him, rather than expectation of an "event."

There will be no supernatural "rapture." The scripture used to propose such an event, really speaks of the final resurrection at the end of time, when Jesus return to this earth the second time, to raise all souls to Judgment.

Nang

In 1Th 4:18, Paul says to comfort one another with the words which he states in the preceeding verses regarding us being 'caught up/raptured' to meet the LORD in the air.

My trust is in the finished work of Christ on the cross and it is that work which guarantees my being gathered up to meet Him when He returns for the Church.

I teach Bible in Prison four hours every Sunday night and a men's Bible study for three hours on Wednesday, among other things in which the LORD allows me to serve Him. That is hardly escapism, though I do agree that many use the 'Pretribulation Rapture Theory' as an escape. What I am trying to show, is that not all do.

If the 'catching up' of Thess 4:17 does occur at the Second Coming, as many believe, is it not still 'supernatural'? Does not 'supernatural' mean 'above the natural' and thus is distinct from the current order of things. It will certainly be a direct intervention from heaven to earth, will it not? I call that 'supernatural', no matter 'when' it occurs.

 

[steko]

I was just starting to like you.. oh well...

What?

 

[sky.]

Indeed.

Types and shadows of the OT have been fulfilled in Christ. And no U-turns will be made in redemptive history back to various types and shadows.

A commentary on Revelation that everyone should read:

Triumph of the Lamb- Dennis Johnson

For deeper study at the scholastic level (Greek assumed):

The Book of Revelation: A Commentary on the Greek Text (New International Greek Testament Commentary - G. K. Beale

And a classic that convinced me over thirty years ago :

The Bible and the Future- Anthony A. Hoekema

AMR

I was just starting to like you...: )...oh well

 

[sky.]

What?

Not you! I mean I like you! I had trouble quoting.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I was just starting to like you...: )...oh well

Well, I did tell you that eventually it would come to this, no?

AMR

 

[steko]

Not you! I mean I like you! I had trouble quoting.

I have troubles sometimes. :noid:

 

[sky.]

Well, I did tell you that eventually it would come to this, no?

AMR

You did mention that we might disagree again imagine that! : ) but please don't get on my cloud.

 

[Guyver]

I respect Pastor Chuck Smith.

I know he's not perfect. No one is. He believes in a pre-tribe rapture. I have no clue. I see it one of two ways.....pre or mid.

I sure hope Pator Chuck is right. That'd be sweet. Cause, the alternative is not good.

 

[steko]

I respect Pastor Chuck Smith.

I know he's not perfect. No one is. He believes in a pre-tribe rapture. I have no clue. I see it one of two ways.....pre or mid.

I sure hope Pator Chuck is right. That'd be sweet. Cause, the alternative is not good.

Chuck Smith. :thumb:

 

[Nang]

In 1Th 4:18, Paul says to comfort one another with the words which he states in the preceeding verses regarding us being 'caught up/raptured' to meet the LORD in the air.

My trust is in the finished work of Christ on the cross and it is that work which guarantees my being gathered up to meet Him when He returns for the Church.

I teach Bible in Prison four hours every Sunday night and a men's Bible study for three hours on Wednesday, among other things in which the LORD allows me to serve Him. That is hardly escapism, though I do agree that many use the 'Pretribulation Rapture Theory' as an escape. What I am trying to show, is that not all do.

If the 'catching up' of Thess 4:17 does occur at the Second Coming, as many believe, is it not still 'supernatural'. Does not 'supernatural' mean 'above the natural' and thus distinct from the current order of things. It will certainly be a direct intervention from heaven to earth, will it not?

This will indeed be a supernatural event!! And it will be universal. See John 5:28-29 that speaks of this resurrection and its purpose.

Unfortunately, a poorly grounded teacher by the name of J.N. Darby took the teachings and predictions of the final resurrection of all souls on that (Judgment) Day, and changed the event to mean a sensational disappearance of the church ("good guys") leaving all the "bad guys" and Jews behind to suffer great tribulation on this earth.

The hoi polloi (and Jew haters) of his day (mid 1800's) loved this new and exciting scenario, for it had never been taught in the visible churches of Jesus Christ prior, and it brought him much attention and some fame . . . but Mr. Darby found to make his "rapture" theory feasible, he had to redo all of Holy Scripture to make his theory fit . . . and we now are stuck with the "Darby Commentary Bible" and modern-day dispensationalism.

His teachings are false.

The only "rapture" is the final resurrection that will occur at the second coming of Jesus Christ on the last Day. And then will come the Judgment of God. (Rev. 11-15)

Nang