toldailytopic: Judge not! Some say Christians shouldn't judge, what say you?

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Hate the sin: acknowledge the failure to live up to divine standards.
Love the sinner: embrace each and every person as a child of God, and allow His love to move through you to make a difference in their lives.

The love the sinner clarion call of many today needs to be better understood.

Does God Hate Sinners?

“God hates the sin, but loves the sinner” has become the motto of American evangelism today. Certainly, God hates sin – about this there can be no equivocation. And the Bible makes it plain that God loves the sinner. But the Bible also states unambiguously, with striking frequency, that GOD HATES SINNERS. The Bible says that He will laugh at the wicked when their calamity comes like a whirlwind, and that He rejoices over the wicked to destroy them. If you find this concept of God incompatible with the tenets of your religion, I question whether you really know the God of the Bible."​

AMR

 

[Buzzword]

The love the sinner clarion call of many today needs to be better understood.

Does God Hate Sinners?

“God hates the sin, but loves the sinner” has become the motto of American evangelism today. Certainly, God hates sin – about this there can be no equivocation. And the Bible makes it plain that God loves the sinner. But the Bible also states unambiguously, with striking frequency, that GOD HATES SINNERS. The Bible says that He will laugh at the wicked when their calamity comes like a whirlwind, and that He rejoices over the wicked to destroy them. If you find this concept of God incompatible with the tenets of your religion, I question whether you really know the God of the Bible."​

AMR

Um, that's kinda off-topic.
The only reason I included that little cliche at the end of my post is that it summed up what I'd already been saying.

Also, how many times in the New Testament does it "unambiguously" state that God hates...anything?

Seems like your interpretation attempts to throw the New Covenant blanket over the Old Covenant and call them both the same thing.

Many times in the Old Testament God is portrayed as the "mighty smiter" concept satirized in Bruce Almighty.

That portrayal seems more to be a product of ancient Hebrew thinking (especially during their many win-or-be-eradicated wars) rather than reality.
I mean, when in the New Testament do we hear about God "hardening hearts" as He supposedly did Pharaoh's against the words of Moses and Aaron?



Besides, I thought we were talking about what WE are supposed to do, not what God does or doesn't do.

 

[Lighthouse]

1 Cor 5:11

We are not to associate with 'brothers/sisters' who habitually sin, but judging them is pointless, because we are not the Judge.

You are clearly reading that into the text when it is not there?

1 Cor 5:12-13

We are to rid ourselves of wickedness, but we cannot judge. SIN is SIN, but God is the judge/jury/...

And this...

There's a saying among American Indians; "Great spirit,grant that I not judge my neighbor until I have walked a mile in his mocassins".
Don't rush to judge people until you know all or enough of the facts. You don't know what the extenuating circumstances might be. But do most Christians do this and give other people the benefit of the doubt? Hardly. Many think they can speak for God, which is the height of arrogance a presumptiousness.

John 7:24 covers that. It's the same as not judging a book by its cover. Don't assume a woman with short hair, wearing a flannel shirt and work boots is a dike. If she tells you she is, then tell her she needs Jesus, etc.

 

[MrDeets]

You are clearly reading that into the text when it is not there?

I hear you, but maybe I didn't make my point clear. I reread my post and do see what what you're looking at. My mistake. I wasn't implying we aren't to call someone on their sin, or that we should tolerate someone who says they are saved, but is sexually promiscuous. I am simply saying that when it comes down to it, I am not Christ, therefore I am not the one to judge sin, or someone's heart. Will I stand idly by and allow a sodomite to think I am okay with it? NO! Would I tolerate a drunkard in my small group at church? HECK NO!! Do I know whether or not someone is going to heaven or hell? Nope. Not looking for an argument, just trying to understand where else you think I am off step.

What is there to explain? Nang is lost.

Gee whiz, that sure helped me lots. Thanks for your thoughts. lain:

 

[Lighthouse]

I hear you, but maybe I didn't make my point clear. I reread my post and do what what you're looking at. My mistake. I wasn't implying we aren't to call someone on their sin, or that we should tolerate someone who says they are saved, but is sexually promiscuous. I am simply saying that when it comes down to it, I am not Christ, therefore I am not the one to judge sin, or someone's heart. Will I stand idly by and allow a sodomite to think I am okay with it? NO! Would I tolerate a drunkard in my small group at church? HECK NO!! Do I know whether or not someone is going to heaven or hell? Nope. Not looking for an argument, just trying to understand where else you think I am off step.

I think some people make it clear that they are headed to Hell, even if they think otherwise. But we certainly cannot make that judgment based on actions, for those in Christ are forgiven no matter what.

Doesn't make it right, or okay, though.

I do think it is better to assume someone is going to Hell than to assume otherwise, for if we are wrong and they are not going to Hell we have done no harm in that regard. However, if we assume they are going to Heaven and we are wrong we have done the utmost wrong to them.

 

[MrDeets]

I do think it is better to assume someone is going to Hell than to assume otherwise, for if we are wrong and they are not going to Hell we have done no harm in that regard. However, if we assume they are going to Heaven and we are wrong we have done the utmost wrong to them.

LOL. Funny way of putting it, but I agree. Thanks

 

[chrysostom]

If we don't tell you now, then you'll have to hear it from God, and then it's too late.

and you telling me that I am going to hell will get me to change my ways?

I don't think you know what you are talking about

 

[chrysostom]

Why would anyone care if I think they are going to Hell?




Unless I'm right!

it is not your job
and
they would have to respect you

 

[Delmar]

Why would anyone care if I think they are going to Hell?


Unless I'm right!

it is not your job

all the more reason not to get upset about my point of view :idunno:

and
they would have to respect you

That may be the answer. Let's say, for example, I called you a crack whore. Chances are pretty good you are just going to laugh in my face, because everybody knows it couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Some use Matthew 7 as a proof text that Christians shouldn't judge. Sadly they stop after verse 1. Matthew 7 is actually an instruction manual on how to judge rightly.

You might even call it... Judging for dummies...

Exactly. We are to judge the behavior of others in a righteous way. We are not to judge a person's eternal condition (Heaven or Hell). Only God knows that and judgment is reserved to Him.

What I see are folks who use Matthew 7:1 (KJV) as an excuse for errant behavior as if behavior were a pathological condition of the soul. Excuses may work during the temporary sojourn of the flesh. They will not work for eternal judgment.

 

[Paulos]

The love the sinner clarion call of many today needs to be better understood.

Does God Hate Sinners?

“God hates the sin, but loves the sinner” has become the motto of American evangelism today. Certainly, God hates sin – about this there can be no equivocation. And the Bible makes it plain that God loves the sinner. But the Bible also states unambiguously, with striking frequency, that GOD HATES SINNERS. The Bible says that He will laugh at the wicked when their calamity comes like a whirlwind, and that He rejoices over the wicked to destroy them. If you find this concept of God incompatible with the tenets of your religion, I question whether you really know the God of the Bible."​

Ezekiel 18:23
“Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord GOD, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?”

Ezekiel 18:32
“I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord GOD. “Therefore turn and live!”

Ezekiel 33:11
‘As I live,’ says the Lord GOD, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.’​

 

[aSeattleConserv]

Originally Posted by ghost
If we don't tell you now, then you'll have to hear it from God, and then it's too late.

and you telling me that I am going to hell will get me to change my ways?

I don't think you know what you are talking about

Just consider it "constructive criticism" chrysostom. By looking at your posts, it's something that you could use a lot of.

 

[chrysostom]

Originally Posted by ghost
If we don't tell you now, then you'll have to hear it from God, and then it's too late.



Just consider it "constructive criticism" chrysostom. By looking at your posts, it's something that you could use a lot of.

I don't think you know what you are talking about

either

 

[chrysostom]

all the more reason not to get upset about my point of view :idunno:
That may be the answer. Let's say, for example, I called you a crack whore. Chances are pretty good you are just going to laugh in my face, because everybody knows it couldn't be further from the truth.

or they might wonder if anything you say is worth listening to

 

[aSeattleConserv]

I don't think you know what you are talking about

either

Actually I do.

I vividly remember a couple of years ago doing something that wasn't ethical. I suppose one could consider it borderline "immoral", considering the factors involved in my personal life.

A God hating atheist that was nearby observed my unethical act, and later judged me on it (thinking that I was going to get defensive and argue the point with him).

Instead, I thanked him for judging me (and I meant it, as he let me know in so many words that based on the laws of God, what I did was wrong).

Upon thanking him for judging me, he practically went into a grand mal seizure, flopping around, insisting that he wasn't judging me.

My point? Even atheists are good for something on a rare occasion.

 

[ghost]

or they might wonder if anything you say is worth listening to

Yep, they might just act like the Pharisees did when Jesus told them they were children of the devil. They might want to kill him.

People who don't want to hear the truth say things like:

I don't think you know what you are talking about

 

[chrysostom]

Actually I do.

I vividly remember a couple of years ago doing something that wasn't ethical. I suppose one could consider it borderline "immoral", considering the factors involved in my personal life.

A God hating atheist that was nearby observed my unethical act, and later judged me on it (thinking that I was going to get defensive and argue the point with him).

Instead, I thanked him for judging me (and I meant it, as he let me know in so many words that based on the laws of God, what I did was wrong).

Upon thanking him for judging me, he practically went into a grand mal seizure, flopping around, insisting that he wasn't judging me.

My point? Even atheists are good for something on a rare occasion.

did he tell you that you were going to hell?

 

[chrysostom]

Yep, they might just act like the Pharisees did when Jesus told them they were children of the devil. They might want to kill him.

People who don't want to hear the truth say things like:

and the people who know the truth say 'you are going to hell'?

 

[ghost]

and the people who know the truth say 'you are going to hell'?

If you are, why would we not?

If the bridge is out, on the road your traveling, should we not tell you?

 

[Nydhogg]

Actually I do.

I vividly remember a couple of years ago doing something that wasn't ethical.

Prima facie,

Your job is unethical.
Your slanderous ways are unethical.
Your self-righteousness is unethical.
Your willful ignorance is unethical.
Your authoritarianism is unethical.
Your support of evil (apartheid, repression, fascism, slavery, theocracy and genocide) is unethical.

You'd end far sooner if you listed the things you did that WEREN'T unethical. That'd be a short list indeed.