toldailytopic: Is the Muslim community doing enough to help thwart the actions of Isl

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for December 7th, 2010 10:46 AM

toldailytopic: Is the Muslim community doing enough to help thwart the actions of Islamic extremist terrorists?

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[Nathon Detroit]

From my perspective I don't see the Muslim community doing ANYTHING to thwart extremist Muslim terrorists. Which makes me wonder... are Muslim terrorists really "extreme"? :think:

 

[ghost]

Did you see this article released a couple of weeks ago?

"The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has been connected to the terrorist organization Hamas, a federal judge said in a July 2009 ruling just unsealed."

 

[Town Heretic]

From my perspective I don't see the Muslim community doing ANYTHING to thwart extremist Muslim terrorists. Which makes me wonder... are Muslim terrorists really "extreme"? :think:

But, you know, that may mean they've been fairly effective as a partner to our intelligence agencies, given the lack of horrific explosions and all. And yes, I'd say terrorists are extremists are far outside of mainstream Muslim thought and action or, again, with 1.5 billion adherents (and between two to six million of them here) the world would look like a Chinese fire drill--without the laughs.

:e4e:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

But, you know, that may mean they've been fairly effective as a partner to our intelligence agencies, given the lack of horrific explosions and all.

That's a complete assumption on your part.

Furthermore... that's not representative of the Muslim community. Why aren't they at the forefront of the fight against terrorism? Isn't it in their best interest to teach that terrorism is bad and that they are actually a peaceful religion?

Yet what do we hear from them??? Complete silence.

 

[Sherman]

From my perspective I don't see the Muslim community doing ANYTHING to thwart extremist Muslim terrorists. Which makes me wonder... are Muslim terrorists really "extreme"? :think:

I have seen just enough of the Koran to know that the Muslim 'extremists' really are not extreme. They are the Muslim equivalent to Biblical Christians-- except that Biblical Christianity is a peaceful religion, fundamental Islam is not. Many of the Muslims we see in the US are liberal Muslims. There are just as many factions of Islam as there are of Christianity, but the Koran itself when understood properly espouses a violent religion.

I have not seen the US Muslims really do anything about the fundamentalist factions either.

 

[Granite]

What would anyone here want to see from the "Muslim community"? I mean, what are they supposed to be doing, here or abroad? And keep in mind they can't do much abroad given the different conditions there and in the west.

 

[Artguy]

What would anyone here want to see from the "Muslim community"? I mean, what are they supposed to be doing, here or abroad? And keep in mind they can't do much abroad given the different conditions there and in the west.

Muslims here could speak out against the violence, but they seem to condone it with their silence. Underneath it all I'm not seeing any of them as being that much different from one another.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

What would anyone here want to see from the "Muslim community"? I mean, what are they supposed to be doing, here or abroad?

Anything!

Denouncing terrorism, educating their followers that it is bad, working to end terrorism, anything!!

Yet I see virtually no evidence that the Muslim community .

 

[WizardofOz]

Anything!

Denouncing terrorism, educating their followers that it is bad, working to end terrorism, anything!!

Yet I see virtually no evidence that the Muslim community .

It's ironic. These are the exact things Faisal Abdur Rauf has been and will continue to do. Would it be better if he were forced to move his mosque or should we give him a bigger stage and turn up the volume on his microphone?

I vote the latter.

Prominent American Muslims denounce terror committed in the name of Islam

Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam. That's just as absurd as associating Hitler with Christianity, or David Koresh with Christianity. There are always people who will do peculiar things, and think that they are doing things in the name of their religion. But the Koran is... God says in the Koran that they think that they are doing right, but they are doing wrong. - Faisal Abdur Rauf

Yeah, we better shut that radical up!

in the simplest term, Islam says that human life is the most sacrosanct, and there is no way that Islam would allow a suicide mission, and would allow the killing of innocents. - Congregant

His congregants even think like him!

No, just from theological process, Islam doesn't only talk about the ends, but also the means; that however angry you are, you couldn't do anything like this. You couldn't kill innocent people. - Siraj Wahaj It's prohibited in Islam to torture animals. It's prohibited to kill animals without just cause. So the idea of killing human beings, innocent human beings, is anathema to Muslims. They're deeply shocked by it. - Shaykh Hamza Yusuf

You can't kill innocent people?

What about Bin Laden? Friend or foe of Islam?

While Islam forbids the killing of innocents, in this 1998 interview, bin Laden justified the US embassy bombings in Africa, saying every American man is our enemy, whether he is a soldier or a taxpayer. As for the women and children who died, he says women and children die every day in Palestine. In a statement last week, bin Laden called for a jihad or holy war in the name of Allah.

I would say that he has no legitimate authority, that in Islam jihad can only be declared by legitimate state authority. And this is accepted by consensus. There is no vigilantism in Islam. Muslims believe in state authority.

You think he's a vigilante?

absolutely, absolutely. All Muslims are guided by the words of Islam's holy book, the Koran, which is believed to be the word of God, and explains how Muslims should lead their lives. It also says fighting should only be in self-defense, a fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but be not aggressive. And the Koran forbids suicide. They cannot bring any textual evidence from the Koran, from the traditions of the prophet, to prove anything that justifies what they've done.

It's out there, but Muslims who denounce terrorism just don't seem to garner much attention.

Why is that? What else should they be doing? I mean a 60 Minutes interview with Ed Bradley is kinda big. Did anyone hear about this interview or even watch it?

Source = Islam for Today

 

[Granite]

Anything!

Denouncing terrorism, educating their followers that it is bad, working to end terrorism, anything!!

Yet I see virtually no evidence that the Muslim community .

Well "Muslims against terrorism" pulled up several organizations on a quick google search, so maybe we're either not looking enough as a country, or maybe groups like this don't get press because they're not threatening or provocative. ("We condemn terrorism" isn't as eye-popping as "We'll bury you.") In the wake of 9/11, many Muslims groups did denounce the attacks and said they were the work of heretics. That response is and was easily overshadowed by the outrage and horror of the day.

I can't personally speak to the "Muslim community" simply because I don't know many practitioners of Islam. Those few acquaintances I do have are disgusted with the idea that al-Qaeda or any other terrorist group speak for them. I will admit that they have a reluctance to say so often, or at all. I'm not sure if it's a cultural difference (one's Lebanese, the other's Egyptian) or whether they're not comfortable discussing the subject or what.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

From my perspective I don't see the Muslim community doing ANYTHING to thwart extremist Muslim terrorists. Which makes me wonder... are Muslim terrorists really "extreme"? :think:

Well said Knight! If people that called themselves Christian were committing terrorist acts throughout the world, you can bet that people like you and I would be doing something about it so that our religion didn't get a bad "rep".

Islam is a false religion, and violence (even though the vast majority don't commit terrorist acts, as of yet) is a big part of it's doctrine.

 

[Town Heretic]

That's a complete assumption on your part.

It's an assumption. Complete? Explains the "may" pretty well though, doesn't it? Any speculation absent evidence is precisely that. I was just giving you a plausible alternative to assuming they aren't doing much or anything.

Furthermore... that's not representative of the Muslim community.

What, you get a majority of the 1.5 billion by email? lain: See, that's part of the problem here. There's no more a singular representative of Islam than there is of any other religion and less than some (see: Catholicism).

Why aren't they at the forefront of the fight against terrorism?

I'll answer you with a quote from a friend of mine about the inference there that they aren't:

That's a complete assumption on your part.

Isn't it in their best interest to teach that terrorism is bad and that they are actually a peaceful religion?

Do Christian churches teach that religious cleansing is a bad thing? Or do they rely on their full theological position to address variations on the theme of murder? Probably a little of both. I have no reason to think Islam differs in that.

Yet what do we hear from them??? Complete silence.

Where are you listening? Try places like http://www.freemuslims.org/

 

[ddevonb]

From my perspective I don't see the Muslim community doing ANYTHING to thwart extremist Muslim terrorists. Which makes me wonder... are Muslim terrorists really "extreme"? :think:

I think there is a difference between the fundamentalist Muslims and the United Methodist Muslims.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

I think there is a difference between the fundamentalist Muslims and the United Methodist Muslims.

And there is a difference between a 45 caliber and 22 caliber round of ammunition.

Both can kill you, one faster than the other.

 

[BabyChristian]

From my perspective I don't see the Muslim community doing ANYTHING to thwart extremist Muslim terrorists. Which makes me wonder... are Muslim terrorists really "extreme"? :think:

AYUP! :up:

 

[Town Heretic]

AYUP! :up:

Here's another one: http://www.m-a-t.org/

These first two took me all of about five seconds to find.

And: http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

Or: http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

But, in fairness, you have to actually not wait for them to come to you. lain:

 

[ghost]

If some Muslims spoke up against terrorism, it would just be evidence that they are not very good Muslims. Whether it is by force or by stealth, the agenda of Islam is the same - Sharia law must rule the earth.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

But, in fairness, you have to actually not wait for them to come to you. lain:

Yeah... I mean... that's the thing.

Christians are generally the first ones to condemn other Christians when they do stupid things i.e., Ted Haggard, Mel Gibson, etc. etc. etc.

Generally speaking.... we Christians want to make sure the world knows that that is not a good representation of Christianity. Yet with Muslims it almost seems like they are either apathetic to the problem in their community or they actually support the terrorist acts, examples would be the Muslims celebrating in the streets on 9-11 and the fact they don't want to comply with our laws (while we all have to get stripped searched by the TSA Muslim women walk right on through in their burkas because they say we have no right to search a Muslim women), another example is the push to build a Mosque near ground zero when it was clear that was a sore spot for most Americans. All of these things (and more) make me suspicious that Muslims disagree with the acts of the so called "extremists".

One would think Muslims would be doing everything in their power to make sure the world knew that Islam is a peaceful religion. Yet, all we can come up with is a few links on internet pages that even took you sympathizers awhile to find.

 

[vegascowboy]

From my perspective I don't see the Muslim community doing ANYTHING to thwart extremist Muslim terrorists. Which makes me wonder... are Muslim terrorists really "extreme"? :think:

And if they are as accepting, friendly, and open to "other" as they often claim, then why don't strictly Islamic countries allow any Christian churches to be built or Christians (or Jews, for that matter) to openly practice and declare their faith?

Fair is fair, right? :idunno: