Esau sold his birthright?
toldailytopic: Hate the sin, love the sinner. What are your thoughts on that common s
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Esau sold his birthright?
heir
TOL Subscriber
You brought up 1 Corinthians 11:32 KJV as if it applies TO us. It doesn't. God is not angry at anyone in the dispensation of the grace of God and you know it.
And yet we are called to love our enemies.
So there must be something going on with context and audience. :idunno:
But seeing as the saying is not in the bible, we should not use it as justification for any particular behaviour. The words of it, however, I don't have a problem with.
zippy2006
New member
Matthew 5:43
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Matthew 5:44
But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
How about shaking the darn dust from your sandals and hightailing it out of town?
zippy2006
New member
I don't see it as calling us to hate or fail to love. How do you see it? I was answering elo's claim's about OT hate of enemies there.
elohiym
Well-known member
Yes. It's a paradox.
Why should you love your enemy?
Answering that question resolves the paradox.
I'm teasing a little. I act in love. I respond in love. Sometimes love must be tough.
Jordan Fontenot
New member
Coffee is King
New member
I can see how both work. I severely hate and dislike the actions and beliefs of my family. I've mentioned on here before that I come from a White Nationalist family. Not all of us hold those views, but many do. They (the members who hold those views) are deluded and hateful. It is very hard to have a good conversation with them, as it always becomes a topic of race, and how we (White people) are superior.
I hate it, and they know I hate it. Yet they continue. I hate it so much I have stopped going to family events. I haven't been back home (Kentucky) in years. But...I still love my family. They are my blood, and nothing counts as much as that. All I can do is pray for them, and hope that they see the errors of their ways. So yes, you can both love and hate at the same time.
elohiym
Well-known member
Yes, and why God hates Esau is related to that fact.
Did Esau hate his birthright? Yes. Genesis 25:34.
What was his birthright? God's Spirit, the promise made to his grandfather Abraham. Galatians 3:14.
Therefore, Esau hated God by hating his birthright. He hated himself by denying and hating the Spirit that sustained him. In other words, God hated Esau only because Esau hated himself by hating the Spirit that animated him.
That's the only logical explanation I can think of that is consistent with a number of scriptures, especially those implying we are all one and all have God's Spirit in some sense from conception and the scriptures regarding reciprocity.
elohiym
Well-known member
Amen.
Why should you love your enemies?
It's a question about the motivation of your heart for doing it.
At one point, I couldn't answer that question, other than to say, "Jesus said to do it." I'm pretty sure all of us agree there has to be a better reason than that?
So why?
zippy2006
New member
elohiym
Well-known member
I give up. Why!?
The reason I love you, whether you are my enemy or not, is because we have the same Spirit. God is in you and in me, and we are one somehow. Whatever I do to you, it's like I'm doing it to God literally, and to myself literally.
"Whatever you do to the least of these, you do it to me."
zippy2006
New member
Sounds fine to me, assuming we avoid pantheism. :thumb:
elohiym
Well-known member
:thumb:
How does it not apply to us?
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
-Ephesians 4:30
Paul commends us not to grieve the Holy Spirit, indicating that we are capable of doing so.
While sin is not imputed to those under grace in the dispensation of grace we are still chastened by the Spirit when we submit to the flesh and focus upon it rather than upon Christ.
Thunder's Muse
Well-known member
Son of Jack
New member
Yes. I think this is exactly right. I'll try to come back and explain more.
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