toldailytopic: Are all sins equal?

[zippy2006]

All that it implies is that all sin is sin and all sin is worthy of condemnation.

I think CM answered this well way back on page 1:

You appear to be saying that:
1. To perfect God, all sins are equal

No; I'm not saying this at all. God established, for Israel, a system of laws and penalties that proved that He didn't see all sins as equal. That wasn't my point. My point was that a little sin makes a person just as imperfect as a big sin does. One cannot be righteous by the deeds of the flesh if he has ever sinned at all.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I think CM answered this well way back on page 1:

I agree... but for some reason ELO just can't get past that to discuss the topic.

 

[chair]

Jesus took away their sins.

No- according to your reasoning they repented, and therefore are no longer sinners. They don't need Jesus.

 

[MrDeets]

I already shared John 9:31 with you, a verse that suggests it was common knowledge among Jews at that time that God does not hear sinners. Here are some of the explicit scriptures that belief is based upon:

Proverbs 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Proverbs 21:13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.

Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.

Jeremiah 14:12 When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and an oblation, I will not accept them: but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.

Ezekiel 8:18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Micah 3:4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.

Zechariah 7:13 Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of hosts:

Proverbs 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

If ten explicit scripture verses that state God does not hear sinners isn't sufficient support for my claim, then what would you consider sufficient support?

How then, do you suppose he hears our repentance and confession of Jesus Christ as LORD?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I agree... but for some reason ELO just can't get past that to discuss the topic.

Elo believes homosexuals are not commiting sin in having sex with each other as long as they love one another.

Elo believes everyone has the Spirit of God in them from birth and salvation is in recognizing it.

Elo does not believe in the need for blood sacrifice to be forgiven of sin.

Elo does not believe a Christian can sin and if he does then he is not a Christian.

How can Elo know anything about sin being equal or not?

LA.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

We only need quote scripture for the answer--

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death.

There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

LA

 

[keypurr]

I don't think most understand what Elo is saying.

Sin is sin. In man's eyes we see degrees of sin, Elo thinks God sees things differently. Knowing man's weakness God sent his son to take away our sins. I understand Elo to be saying just that. His judgements are not the same as ours. If we cross the line and transgress his law it is SIN, no matter which law we breach.

Peace

 

[andyc]

All sins are not equal.

The greater the sin, the greater the damage to a person's witness.

 

[Todah]

Are all sins equal? Of course not! For instance in this country you can not kill just any human being, except in self defense. It is called murder.

However, you can kill another human being in their mother's womb for any reason, beyond self-defense, {life of Mother} It is called abortion.


Also on this forum you can not condemn people who happened to be born with black skin, nor use the "n" word. However you can condemn all people who happened to be born Jewish, and call them liars, murderers and children of Satan.

So, no, not all sins are equal. It is in the eye of the beholder, or in the "apple" of the eye, so to speak.

Todah is a liar, and murderer. Apple 7 and all her kin are liars and murderers??? So how about banning her thread, or else banning me, for my statement concerning Apple7 and all her children? and relatives. Then we can see which sin is the more equal.

 

[Nick M]

The "all sins are equal" cliche makes Christianity look asinine to non-believers. I can remember arguing with a Christian when I was an atheist and he was insistent that stealing a Tootsie Roll was equal to raping and murdering an 8 year old girl.

They both equate to death, as in eternal seperation from God. That is all Elo is saying. I think. Fail in one point, you fail in all points. Now, of course being a liberal is much worse than just stealing a tootsie roll. This is why he says to governments take their life here.

 

[Nick M]

No I don't agree. Even in hell some sins will produce worse judgement.

Hell is the holding cell before eternal punishment in the lake of fire.

 

[graceandpeace]

IMO, the only difference between sins are their eternal vs. temporal consequences.

A man who lusts after a woman who is not his wife might experience ZERO consequences during his lifetime.
Many such men are able to separate fantasy from reality, and never experience negative consequences in their lives or marriages.

A man who commits murder is far more likely to experience negative consequences in the here and now, whether legal or psychological.

However, both of the above have the exact same eternal consequence: making the offenders unworthy of God's presence.
Similarly, both are equally capable of being covered (and thus blotted out) by God's grace.

Knight, you may be sick of "all sins are equal," but it seems more legalistic to me to say that some are worse than others when speaking in a spiritual context.

I have no problem with the argument when made in terms of temporal consequences, but using the eternal to make some sins seem worse than others sounds like a Dante's Inferno doctrine, with different sins (handpicked by church people, of course) leading to better or worse punishments in the hereafter.

This is true, because when you are not in Christ/ where sin is not covered, it does not matter what the sin is you do, for when you break one, you are JUST as guilty as IF you broke all.

When one is in Christ; sin is not imputed; but grace is not a grace that teaches you to go out and sin, due to that; grace teaches you to deny all ungodliness; or it is not biblical grace.

 

[graceandpeace]

No I don't agree. Even in hell some sins will produce worse judgement.

And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. Luke 12:47-48

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." Mat. 23:14-15

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." Mat. 11:21-24

My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. James 3:1​

elohiym based on the following scripture...

Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin." John 19:11​

... do you agree that Jesus considered some sins greater than others?

this is speaking of 'sin' that is committed while you know it is wrong to do so.

God expects more from those whom He lives in, than He does in those whom He doesnt, in the area of 'sin'. Grace is not a license to sin.

 

[graceandpeace]

Not all sins are equal.

This verse has already been posted several times in this thread.

Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” - John 19:11

Throwing your bologna sandwich under the bench instead of eating it would not carry the same weight as turning Jesus' name into a cuss word.

Blasphemy, Murder, steering people way from God, and sexual immorality carry the most weight. Punishment for these in the Old testament was severe. Some one who promotes homosexuality and teaches it to children is guilty of a greater sin than someone to tries to get tax breaks for politicians.

Teaching that all sins are equal has helped to exacerbate the problem of a weak and ineffectual church in addressing the moral problems in the culture. This doctrine is a sign of a wimpy church.

"sinning" while having the holy spirit is worse a sin than sinning, as a non believer..this is what it is all about.

God expects more from those whom He lives in, than He does from those He doesnt. It is natural for a non believer to be a 'habitual sinner', for by nature, that is what all flesh are.

When Christ comes to live in you, you are supposed to submit to Him, and when you quench the holy spirit, and keep sinning, He is not pleased...that is why the 'sin' is deemed worse.

 

[graceandpeace]

Okay.



He views both acts as sin worthy of eternal separation from him. The Bible states that hatred is equated to murder (1Jo 3:15) and that if you violate one commandment you have, in some sense, violated them all (James 2:10). Jesus, God in flesh, said this:

Luke 13:1-5
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

That all implies sins are equal in some sense that is relevant to the gospel, and that is what I believe many mean when they say "all sins are equal." I've never encountered a person that argued stealing and murder are equal in every sense, and I suspect that is because those two sins are self-evidently not equal in every sense, as I've already acknowledged earlier in this thread.

Yes, true.:wave:

 

[john w]

This is true, because when you are not in Christ/ where sin is not covered, it does not matter what the sin is you do, for when you break one, you are JUST as guilty as IF you broke all.

When one is in Christ; sin is not imputed; but grace is not a grace that teaches you to go out and sin, due to that; grace teaches you to deny all ungodliness; or it is not biblical grace.

"when you are not in Christ/ where sin is not covered,"-GP

"not covered"

Nope. Sin removed by the dbr, not just "covered."

 

[chair]

...it does not matter what the sin is you do, for when you break one, you are JUST as guilty as IF you broke all....

It's amazing how many otherwise normal people can spout this kind of stuff without laughing.

 

[Lon]

It's amazing how many otherwise normal people can spout this kind of stuff without laughing.

From one perspective yes, but I do think, at least this question, wasn't presumptuous of me:

Will you go to jail for robbery or murder?

(the answer of course is 'yes' so in this sense, guilty is guilty but I also agree with you the consequences fit the crime respectively)

 

[Lighthouse]

All sins are not equal.

The greater the sin, the greater the damage to a person's witness.

:rotfl:

 

[andyc]

:rotfl:

Sadly expected.