toldailytopic: Are all sins equal?

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for September 12th, 2011 08:51 AM

toldailytopic: Are all sins equal?

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[zippy2006]

No, in the OT we see differing punishment for different sins.

Also, in Luke 10:8-15 we see that someone who has sinned in the face of greater goodness (Christ) will be condemned more harshly.

 

[chickenman]

From the standpoint of, "What deeds of the flesh makes one righteous"...then they're all the same. Any sin - great or small - makes one equally unrighteous and unworthy of an eternity with a perfect God.

From any other standpoint...then all sins are most certainly not the same. It would be disgusting to claim that something like provoking your little sister by pulling her hair is anywhere near the same ballpark as rape, kidnap, or murder.

 

[kmoney]

No, in the OT we see differing punishment for different sins.

Also, in Luke 10:8-15 we see that someone who has sinned in the face of greater goodness (Christ) will be condemned more harshly.

What he said. :up:

 

[MrDeets]

:idunno: My sin was handled at Calvary, so I haven't spent much time thinking about it.

For someone who doesn't know Christ, I think sin simply keeps their heart away from God, not God away from them. Ultimately, only one sin mattered anyway, Rom 5:18.

 

[chair]

From the standpoint of, "What deeds of the flesh makes one righteous"...then they're all the same. Any sin - great or small - makes one equally unrighteous and unworthy of an eternity with a perfect God.

From any other standpoint...then all sins are most certainly not the same. It would be disgusting to claim that something like provoking your little sister by pulling her hair is anywhere near the same ballpark as rape, kidnap, or murder.

Can you explain this further? To me your two statements seem contradictory.

 

[zippy2006]

From the standpoint of, "What deeds of the flesh makes one righteous"...then they're all the same. Any sin - great or small - makes one equally unrighteous and unworthy of an eternity with a perfect God.

From any other standpoint...then all sins are most certainly not the same. It would be disgusting to claim that something like provoking your little sister by pulling her hair is anywhere near the same ballpark as rape, kidnap, or murder.

Good distinction :thumb:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I get so sick of hearing the cliche... "all sins are equal."

The throngs of mega-church zombies use that as a battle cry to make homosexual's, pro aborts, and other vile behavior seem "not so bad". It's as if to say... "hey man, don't judge the wicked, after all you have sinned too, and remember all sins are equal". Yet the Bible makes it clear that while all sin is deserving of death, some sins are greater than others.

Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” - John 19:11

 

[Buzzword]

IMO, the only difference between sins are their eternal vs. temporal consequences.

A man who lusts after a woman who is not his wife might experience ZERO consequences during his lifetime.
Many such men are able to separate fantasy from reality, and never experience negative consequences in their lives or marriages.

A man who commits murder is far more likely to experience negative consequences in the here and now, whether legal or psychological.

However, both of the above have the exact same eternal consequence: making the offenders unworthy of God's presence.
Similarly, both are equally capable of being covered (and thus blotted out) by God's grace.

Knight, you may be sick of "all sins are equal," but it seems more legalistic to me to say that some are worse than others when speaking in a spiritual context.

I have no problem with the argument when made in terms of temporal consequences, but using the eternal to make some sins seem worse than others sounds like a Dante's Inferno doctrine, with different sins (handpicked by church people, of course) leading to better or worse punishments in the hereafter.

 

[Lon]

Can you explain this further? To me your two statements seem contradictory.

Come on Chair! For an O.T. guy, this is ridiculous.

1) Would you rather I punch you or shoot you if you had to choose?
2) Which wil I got to jail for: if I steal from a bank or if I kill somebody?

 

[chickenman]

Can you explain this further? To me your two statements seem contradictory.

I'll do my best, but let me know, first, what it is that seems contradictory.

Thanks,
Randy

 

[chair]

From the standpoint of, "What deeds of the flesh makes one righteous"...then they're all the same. Any sin - great or small - makes one equally unrighteous and unworthy of an eternity with a perfect God.

From any other standpoint...then all sins are most certainly not the same. It would be disgusting to claim that something like provoking your little sister by pulling her hair is anywhere near the same ballpark as rape, kidnap, or murder.

Maybe "contradictory" is the wrong term. My problem is this:

You appear to be saying that:
1. To perfect God, all sins are equal
2. To imperfect humans "all sins are most certainly not the same"
3. You then go on to say that it would be "disgusting" to claim that all sins are equal (you gave specific examples). Yet your disgust does not extend to what God's standpoint. Why?

 

[chair]

Come on Chair! For an O.T. guy, this is ridiculous.

1) Would you rather I punch you or shoot you if you had to choose?
2) Which wil I got to jail for: if I steal from a bank or if I kill somebody?

There is nothing ridiculous- and I am not "an OT guy", whatever that is. I suspect that you did not understand me at all. The idea that all sins are equal (even 'only' in God's eyes) strikes me as immoral and horrible.

 

[chickenman]

Maybe "contradictory" is the wrong term. My problem is this:

You appear to be saying that:
1. To perfect God, all sins are equal

No; I'm not saying this at all. God established, for Israel, a system of laws and penalties that proved that He didn't see all sins as equal. That wasn't my point. My point was that a little sin makes a person just as imperfect as a big sin does. One cannot be righteous by the deeds of the flesh if he has ever sinned at all.

2. To imperfect humans "all sins are most certainly not the same"

Hopefully my address of your point #1 took care of this one, too.

3. You then go on to say that it would be "disgusting" to claim that all sins are equal (you gave specific examples). Yet your disgust does not extend to what God's standpoint. Why?

Hopefully my address of your point #1 took care of this one, too.

 

[elohiym]

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

All sins are equal regarding the eternal consequence for sinning. That is all that matters in my opinion. A discussion about the inequality of various sins is virtually superfluous, and for some it is akin to trying to prove ones beam is not as large as the mote in his neighbor's eye.

 

[chair]

... a little sin makes a person just as imperfect as a big sin does...

I guess if absolute perfection is what is required, then either you are, or aren't.

The idea that absolute perfection is required seems sick to me, but so be it.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

All sins are equal regarding the eternal consequence for sinning. That is all that matters in my opinion.

I disagree entirely and here is why.

The "all sins are equal" cliche makes Christianity look asinine to non-believers. I can remember arguing with a Christian when I was an atheist and he was insistent that stealing a Tootsie Roll was equal to raping and murdering an 8 year old girl.

That notion made me reject Christianity even more so.

Christian's need to understand all the arguments and be biblically accurate. And the Bible is clear, that some sins are greater than others. Had that been argued to me when I was lost maybe I would have come to know the Lord more quickly. Thankfully I found Bob Enyart's ministry and his biblical approach appealed more to the truth of God. It helped me to know that God doesn't view stealing a Tootsie Roll the same as raping and murdering a young girl.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I like to think of it like this....

All debt is debt. It doesn't matter if you owe one penny or one million dollars you are in debt. But not all debt is the same. Some debt is greater than other debt. Owing one million dollars is a greater debt than owing one penny.

Therefore some debt is greater than other debt, but it is all debt.

You could say the same about sin.

All sin is sin. However some sin is greater than other sin.

 

[chickenman]

I guess if absolute perfection is what is required, then either you are, or aren't.

The idea that absolute perfection is required seems sick to me, but so be it.

Perfection is required, chair. And there are only two ways to be perfect:
1) Be perfect by the things you do.
2) Be made perfect.

The law under which your people operated for centuries demonstrated that no one can achieve #1 (making yourself perfect). So, their sins have to be blotted out - eliminated - somehow.

During this dispensation of grace, the way for that to happen is to be placed into the only One who was ever actually perfect. We're told that when we are placed into Christ, we put on Christ (Gal. 3:27). When we stop trusting in ourselves and actually trust that Christ died for our sins and rose again, then we are placed into Him, buried with Him, raised with Him (Rom. 6:3-9), becoming holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4) and righteous (II Cor. 5:20) as He is. This is true because we are forevermore judged according to what and who He is and not according to who we are. Our lives are hid with Christ in God (Col. 3:3).

We can't be perfect on our own. But we can be made perfect.

Your scriptures foretold how and when your people could have their sins blotted out, chair. Do you believe it's possible to have your sins blotted out forevermore?

Thanks,
Randy

 

[zippy2006]

I like to think of it like this....

All debt is debt. It doesn't matter if you owe one penny or one million dollars you are in debt. But not all debt is the same. Some debt is greater than other debt. Owing one million dollars is a greater debt than owing one penny.

Therefore some debt is greater than other debt, but it is all debt.

You could say the same about sin.

All sin is sin. However some sin is greater than other sin.

Agreed. I think the danger some are pointing out is illustrated in Mt 20:1-16. It is the danger of thinking that you don't owe God much, that your debt is relatively small.