Toddler shoots mother in Walmart...

[Granite]

Toddler shoots mother in Walmart...

Here is a women who was following the "gun lobby's" mantra - being prepared for the unlikely event that she might be confronted by an armed individual in Walmart!

I thought the same thing.

Also, has anybody considered the yahoos who designed this easy-carry purse of hers? Yeah. Bang up job, boys. Here's a slogan to trot out for the 2015 refresh of your product:

"So easy, a two-year-old can use it."

 

[Rusha]

Not really, most criminals aren't armed.

They are armed ... with their hands and anything that is within their reach. Criminals should always be at a disadvantage.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The longer any discussion goes on the less you say and the worse you get.

Yes, I have to keep dumbing down what I am saying for people like you that just don't have the capacity to understand the rudimentary points.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Just plain untrue practically apart from Guns we have the same freedoms as you do.

So, your claim is that Americans have now lost all their freedoms until they are just as bad off as the UK?

 

[The Berean]

Actually, I grew up beside my great-grandfather, the gunsmith/watchmaker. I began learning how to make accurate guns from raw materials at about 8 years old. Yet the number of people with those skills is still quite small. True, some criminals might begin making them if they weren't so easy to come by, but likely not that many would especially given the evidence that overseas we don't see big criminal gun factories building up. As it stands they have no reason to even go to the trouble since they can shop at any gun show, pawn shop or neighborhood residence. The U.S. is the Wal Mart of gun stores for gangbangers, thieves, killers and psycho-terrorists.

That was my point of my previous post. If access to guns in America suddenly became severally restricted I can see organized crime syndicates either fabricate guns or smuggle them into the country (a bit like illegal liquor during Prohibition). But you are correct given the easy access to guns now there is no need to 3D print guns.

 

[This Charming Manc]

They are armed ... with their hands and anything that is within their reach. Criminals should always be at a disadvantage.

but the law that puts a gun in your hand also ensures there will be a gun in theirs.

That's the issue, it tends to be everyone has guns or nobody has guns.

Its is insane to think that in a country with 300,000,000 firearms criminals wont be armed with guns.

Its very sane to believe in a country with 12,500 licensed handguns criminals wont be armed with guns.

 

[This Charming Manc]

At which point they can be arrested and dealt with for having and owning illegal weapons.

Prohibition didn't work because people wanted booze and were willing to put up with criminals to get it.

People dont have the desire to shot by organized crime in the same manner.

Thus i dont think its a good comparison

That was my point of my previous post. If access to guns in America suddenly became severally restricted I can see organized crime syndicates either fabricate guns or smuggle them into the country (a bit like illegal liquor during Prohibition). But you are correct given the easy access to guns now there is need to 3D print guns.

 

[This Charming Manc]

No i'm saying we have basically the same freedoms.

I'm not sure where you get the impression that we dont have the same freedoms in the UK.

Apart from the gun thing which freedoms do you think we are missing?

So, your claim is that Americans have now lost all their freedoms until they are just as bad off as the UK?

 

[Bright Raven]

Tragic.

 

[Angel4Truth]

but the law that puts a gun in your hand also ensures there will be a gun in theirs.

explain this then:

 

[The Berean]

At which point they can be arrested and dealt with for having and owning illegal weapons.

Prohibition didn't work because people wanted booze and were willing to put up with criminals to get it.

People dont have the desire to shot by organized crime in the same manner.

Thus i dont think its a good comparison

I was referring to criminals obtaining guns. Today most guns used by criminals originally were purchased legally. If that avenue is closed then as I said before enterprising criminal organizations will see a "black" market for guns and either produce illegal guns or ship them in from outside the country.

 

[The Berean]

Actually, I grew up beside my great-grandfather, the gunsmith/watchmaker. I began learning how to make accurate guns from raw materials at about 8 years old. Yet the number of people with those skills is still quite small. True, some criminals might begin making them if they weren't so easy to come by, but likely not that many would especially given the evidence that overseas we don't see big criminal gun factories building up. As it stands they have no reason to even go to the trouble since they can shop at any gun show, pawn shop or neighborhood residence. The U.S. is the Wal Mart of gun stores for gangbangers, thieves, killers and psycho-terrorists.

Certainly, gunsmithing is a rare skill but 3D printing of guns is a different animal entirely. No fabrication experience or mechanical skills are really needed as in gunsmithing. A criminal organization with "deep pockets" can simply purchase 3D prining machines and probably mass produce on a fairly high level.

 

[patrick jane]

Certainly, gunsmithing is a rare skill but 3D printing of guns is a different animal entirely. No fabrication experience or mechanical skills are really needed as in gunsmithing. A criminal organization with "deep pockets" can simply purchase 3D prining machines and probably mass produce on a fairly high level.

the future of weoponry is unimaginable. just imagine. a baby can kill a parent, without even tryin'. but really, would you let that happen to you ? it's easy to take ONE incident and make it a theme for an agenda. basically, lady messed up. safety lock, etc., dumb people should not have a gun .:singer:

 

[This Charming Manc]

A number of factors effect that graph, some you would not be excepted to be aware of.

First the dates on the graph are chosen to show a specific picture, looking at a longer time frame we see a general upwards pattern that continues after the handgun ban. This turns for the first time in 50 years, 8 years after the ban.

Second a large part of the 2000 - 2002 peak comes from the actions of one man Harold Shipman who was a doctor who had been murdering his elderly patients with poor medicine for the last 30 years, he was uncovered in 2000 to 2002 and 250+ murders were attributed to him in that period though they had been committed before, not gun crime related at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

Thirdly is the fact that the UK has never been a high gun ownership culture, even pre 1996 guns for home defense were not common. The dunblane massacre just pushed a bit further down the road from a low gun culture to a very low gun culture, the 1996 act isn't what made the UK gun free its probably 150 years of different culture before that.

Finally I do think there was an elements of a genuine increased in murder rate in the late 90's, this is when crack cocaine and gang culture took hold in some of our larger cities.

Be careful when some who is receiving money Gun companies, produces a graph with a limited set of stats saying there is no link between people having guns and people getting shot, they might not be telling the whole truth.

explain this then:

 

[Angel4Truth]

Be careful when some who is receiving money Gun companies, produces a graph with a limited set of stats saying there is no link between people having guns and people getting shot, they might not be telling the whole truth.

So your government is lying about the gun homicide rates there?

 

[This Charming Manc]

I was referring to pro gun lobbyists actually.

Taking a small piece of information out of context, with no understanding, and drawing a conclusion which bears no relation to the truth of the issue .

So your government is lying about the gun homicide rates there?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I was referring to pro gun lobbyists actually.

Where did i say anything or post anything by a gun lobby, i just showed that what you said isnt accurate with your own homicide by gun rates. All i posted was your crime rates of homicide by gun.

You claimed no legal guns means no guns - thats blatently false, your homicide by gun rates went up, not down.

Taking a small piece of information out of context, with no understanding, and drawing a conclusion which bears no relation to the truth of the issue .

The context was your claim that no legal guns in citizens hands means no gun violence and thats false, any way you slice it. All i posted was your homicide by gun rates ( i didnt even post shootings that didnt end in death, should i?)

No legal gun ownership only means illegal gun ownership and do you really think a criminal cares whats legal? All that did was keep law abiding people from being able to defend themselves and their family and neighbors.

 

[Rusha]

but the law that puts a gun in your hand also ensures there will be a gun in theirs.

That's the issue, it tends to be everyone has guns or nobody has guns.

No the issue is ... I am not a criminal and do not have a criminal record OR a history of violence. Why should my right to own a firearm to defend my family, self and home be determined by someone who WILL own a firearm regardless of laws forbidding it?

 

[The Barbarian]

I have an idea. Why don't we count up the lives SAVED by guns (intruders, rapists, murderers) or that could have been saved had the victim had a gun

and compare that to the number of accidental shootings

That was done by the National Safety Council in the 80s. They took NRA stats on people who killed, wounded, or scared off assailants or intruders with a gun, and compared that to accidental shooting deaths.

Turns out, in the 80s, about 20% of Americans lived in areas dangerous enough that it was safer to have a gun than not have one.

Given the drop in violent crime in recent decades, it's probably changed. But the question of being armed or not, is not a simple one, and depends on where you are, and perhaps on how agreeable you are.

My guess is that most of us are too wary of our neighbors and not wary enough of our own tendency to mess up.

 

[Granite]

I expected more out of Rusha. And even Angel.