Toddler shoots mother in Walmart...

[Granite]

I agree guns alone will never win a "war" against the government. Actually IMO the most important "freedom fighters" in a "war" against the government would be computer hackers who could cripple major government/military computer networks.

Funny how nobody here has even mentioned law enforcement yet.

Ya know, for the longest time the militia guys, so-called "patriots," and the rest of The New American crowd warned against the military coming for us. And lookie here, the cops have been militarized. I don't hear too many Don't Tread On Me types calling foul on that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Lots of words, don't mean a thing.

Tell that to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Funny how nobody here has even mentioned law enforcement yet.

Ya know, for the longest time the militia guys, so-called "patriots," and the rest of The New American crowd warned against the military coming for us. And lookie here, the cops have been militarized. I don't hear too many Don't Tread On Me types calling foul on that.

Try listening to Alex Jones, you will hear a lot about it.

 

[Granite]

Tell that to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

Find new and better material. Next you'll tell me the Black Panthers are going to stage a coup and the UN's gonna just, you know, umm...take over stuff. Next week, probably.

We're a gun nut country convinced we'll never have our guns again. More suckers we.

 

[Morpheus]

The criminals have the advantage ... which you don't seem to have a problem with.

The criminals ultimately get their guns from people like you. They don't make them; they either steal them or buy them from legal gun owners.

 

[Granite]

Try listening to Alex Jones, you will hear a lot about it.

Jones is an idiot and con man at best, judas goat at worst. If I wanted to listen to a frothing idiot I could stop by a Wal-Mart and just wait.

 

[Rusha]

The criminals ultimately get their guns from people like you..

They keep their power because of people like you ...

They don't make them; they either steal them

Right ... and why do they *steal* them? It's because people like you are willing to allow them to victimize law abiding citizens by taking away their means of self defense.

 

[The Berean]

The criminals ultimately get their guns from people like you. They don't make them; they either steal them or buy them from legal gun owners.

I can see an enterprising criminal organization making their own guns. And that is scary to think about.

Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer

 

[The Berean]

Funny how nobody here has even mentioned law enforcement yet.

Ya know, for the longest time the militia guys, so-called "patriots," and the rest of The New American crowd warned against the military coming for us. And lookie here, the cops have been militarized. I don't hear too many Don't Tread On Me types calling foul on that.

That's true.

 

[Granite]

I can see an enterprising criminal organization making their own guns. And that is scary to think about.

Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer

Uh...anybody can do that.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If I wanted to listen to a frothing idiot I could stop by a Wal-Mart and just wait.

Or you could step away from your computer, find a place to be alone, and just talk to yourself.

 

[Granite]

Or you could step away from your computer, find a place to be alone, and just talk to yourself.

Seriously, what the hell is your problem? The longer any discussion goes on the less you say and the worse you get. If anybody else who's interesting here (I see you, lurkers) wants to chime in, please do. GI Jane here has a tank to buy so she could shoot it out with du gummit.

Tough-talking do-nothing halfwits like you are part of the problem. I've heard this crap since '92. Oh, the revolution is coming all right. Eventually. Soon. One of these days. Any day now. You guys are as bad as rapture freaks.

 

[Granite]

They keep their power because of people like you ...



Right ... and why do they *steal* them? It's because people like you are willing to allow them to victimize law abiding citizens by taking away their means of self defense.

With due respect, how many gun owners always keep their firearms under lock and key? When you have as many guns as we do floating around sooner or later they're pretty easy to find.

Gun owners have a far heavier burden on their shoulders and often seem loathe to accept any responsibility for some of the problems we face.

 

[Morpheus]

They keep their power because of people like you ...



Right ... and why do they *steal* them? It's because people like you are willing to allow them to victimize law abiding citizens by taking away their means of self defense.

Did you actually stop to think before you poked that out? If you would have had you "means of self defense" taken away then you wouldn't have had a gun for them to steal. They are so well armed only because of the proliferation of guns. For example, if nobody had assault or full-automatic weapons then they wouldn't have them either.

As an example, recently how much worse would the hostage situation in Australia have been if instead it would have been in say New York, where the gunman would have been far better armed? The more firearms available, and the higher the capacity, the more available to criminals.

 

[Tinark]

The statistics bear it out: owning a gun substantially increases your chances of being shot in an accident, whether it is a child playing with it, accidental discharge, or firing at someone whom you thought was an intruder but is actually a family member or friend. There are far more shooting accidents than there are cases where it is used successfully for self defense. Suicide rates are also higher in households that own a gun compared to those that don't. If you want to make you and your family less safe, then you should own a gun.

 

[Morpheus]

I can see an enterprising criminal organization making their own guns. And that is scary to think about.

Texas company makes metal gun with 3-D printer

Actually, I grew up beside my great-grandfather, the gunsmith/watchmaker. I began learning how to make accurate guns from raw materials at about 8 years old. Yet the number of people with those skills is still quite small. True, some criminals might begin making them if they weren't so easy to come by, but likely not that many would especially given the evidence that overseas we don't see big criminal gun factories building up. As it stands they have no reason to even go to the trouble since they can shop at any gun show, pawn shop or neighborhood residence. The U.S. is the Wal Mart of gun stores for gangbangers, thieves, killers and psycho-terrorists.

 

[This Charming Manc]

The criminals have the advantage ... which you don't seem to have a problem with.

Not really, most criminals aren't armed.

What happens is with a 5 - 10 year sentence for possession of a firearm, the only criminals that will risk having a firearm will be someone planning an armed robbery, some premeditating murder (rare) or very limited gang/drug related violence.

A break in, assault, car theft, mugging, fight and pretty theft which make up the vast majority of crime, will not involve firearms and dont have the capacity to escalate into a firefight.

One of the reasons US law enforcement has an issue with apparent over reaction to situations is that any minor issue can very quickly into an armed confrontation. We dont have that issue.

The stats say we have very similar levels of crime but have a much lower chance of being shot.

The view that its your guns that keep you safe seems to be a myth, based on the individual American spirit, rather than any statistical or factual truth.

 

[This Charming Manc]

No

Just plain untrue practically apart from Guns we have the same freedoms as you do.

Yes, but they are illegal.

We have very few civilian owned handguns apparently 14,501, about 2,000,000 registered shotguns and rifles.

Handgun homicides 4 per annum, for a population of close to 70,000,000 people.
Thus Total gun deaths including suicides and accidents 146 in 2011.

Scaled to a US population that is approx 720 gun fatalities, compared to your 30,000 per annum.

So yes we would like less, but I think its dishonest to suggest we have a significant problem with gun violence.

Interesting comparison stats here

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-kingdom

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

 

[Granite]

Manc, you hit on a very good point: While I detest the militarization of American law enforcement and am disgusted by the gung-ho attitude inherent to it, the fact is, a cop in this country can reasonably assume virtually anyone is armed. That makes the entire situation that much more difficult.

Does it excuse police abuses and overreach? Absolutely not. Eric Garner's case, for example, obviously doesn't apply here.

Neither cops nor gun owners nor advocates for sane gun control or cops's unions appear ready to cede an inch of ground on any conceivable issue. If it wasn't new year's eve, I'd say we're completely screwed.

I'll try to stay optimistic.

 

[jgarden]

So...

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/30/idaho-toddler-shoots-kills-mother-walmart

Toddler shoots mother in Walmart...

Here is a women who was following the "gun lobby's" mantra - being prepared for the unlikely eventuality of being confronted by a gun-toting individual in Walmart!