Theology Club: Today Many in the Neo-MAD Camp are King James Only

[Desert Reign]

First let us look at this translation from the KJV in a little more detail:

There is only one way a translation can be in error: that is if it does not conform to the original language text.

So why don't you stop prevaricating and show me where it doesn't conform to the original Greek?

Yes or no.
I'm still waiting.

Actually, I'll take that as a no, since you obviously can't. Pathetic really. You haven't even got the grace to say that you do not have the requisite knowledge to discuss the matter. You are so full of pride. You spent years deceiving people from the pulpit but now that you are retired and in a public forum where people aren't quite so gullible, you duck and weave and squirm and you find it hard to imagine that people talk back, discuss and argue. You made a claim that was shown to be false but you refuse to recognise or even discuss the evidence, instead you repeat the same irrelevant arguments. What hurts people the most is when you ignore them. You do this all the time. You treat them like dirt. You talk over our heads and ignore us whenever we say anything. You are actually hateful towards people generally and completely unchristian. If you but once responded to my arguments, it could be different. You are pathetic. See you in another thread.

 

[Tambora]

I have already answered you.

I don't care whether your points about Leviticus were right or wrong.

Your claim is that the translation is wrong.
However, your argument totally ignores the translation and basically consists of 'the text is wrong'.
So you are just being deceptive. You are probably just confused.

If the translation is the problem, then you need to address the following:

Τῇ δὲ πρώτῃ
Do you agree that this is the dative case, indicating time when: 'on the first (day)'?
Yes or no?

Do you agree that the feminine form of the adjective is being used here and the Greek word for 'day' is feminine and that in accordance with standard Greek usage, this refers to 'the first day'? Thus do you agree that the word 'day' is assumed?
Yes or no?

τῶν ἀζύμων
'of the unleavened (breads)'
Do you agree that the word 'breads' is assumed?
Yes or no?

Do you agree that the plural form indicates a feast, festival or celebration, in keeping with standard Greek syntax?
Yes or no?

If you answer 'no' to any of the above, please give a reason, with grammatical, syntactical or lexical explanations.

NO OTHER KIND OF EXPLANATION IS ACCEPTABLE TO JUSTIFY A CLAIM OF A WRONG TRANSLATION.

Remember your claim was that the translation was wrong. You said this yourself.

What you are really doing is claiming that the text itself is wrong. But because you daren't accuse the author of being wrong, you blame it on the translator. Which is actually quite despicable because the translator probably spent years studying and also probably did the translation without charge because he felt he was doing God's work, only for someone like you to come along, who knows nothing of ancient Greek, to rub his nose in the dirt and transfer your petty insecurities and doubts onto him.

So answer my questions above with a yes or a no and if a no, do what I asked by showing why you think the translation is wrong.

Otherwise I am going to say nothing more to you on the subject.

YOU MADE THE CLAIM THE TRANSLATION WAS WRONG. YOU MUST UPHOLD THAT.

opcorn:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is only one way a translation can be in error: that is if it does not conform to the original language text.

So why don't you stop prevaricating and show me where it doesn't conform to the original Greek?

I already have. The translation of Matthew 26:17 in the KJV "adds" words from the Greek text that are not found in that text. So you are sadly misinformed if you think that the translation from the KJV "conforms" to the original language.

There are many translation in other versions of the Bible which do not add the words "feast of" to the text, including the YLT, ASV, RSV, NASB, HCSB, ESV, NLT, BLV, NWB, WEB, WNT, and the NRV. So there are at least twelve translations which translate Matthew 26:17 differently than the translation in the KJV.

Those translations obviously have more credibility, especially since they match all the other translations that I have found in all the different versions of the Bible, this one found in the book of Mark which speak of the same exact day:

"Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the passover?" (Mt.26:17; RSV).​

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?" (Mk.14:12; KJV).​

The KJV translation at Matthew 26:17 contradicts the KJV translation at Luke 14:12. However, all of the translations from other Bibles which I cited at Matthew 26:17 match perfectly with what is said at Mark 14:12.

Besides, as I have already pointed out, the day in question is the day when they killed the Passover (Mk.14:12). And that happened on the 14th and not the 15th, the day of the feast oof unleavened bread. And as usual, you just run and hide from that FACT FROM THE SCRIPTURES!

You haven't even got the grace to say that you do not have the requisite knowledge to discuss the matter. You are so full of pride.

Do you think that your two years of the study of the Greek language makes you more able to know that the translators of all the Bible translation of Matthew 26:17 which I cited are in error?

If your answer is "yes" then it is you who is prideful, not me.

If you but once responded to my arguments, it could be different. You are pathetic.

On this very post I responded to your argument. If you want to defend your argument then you must tell us why anyone should believe you when assert that the day in question was the first day of the feast of unleavened bread (which happened on the 15th) since the day was obviously the 14th, when they killed the Passover:

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?" (Mk.14:12; KJV).​

I answered your points but I am sure that you will just run and hide from what I said about the day when they killed the Passover.

That is your usual way of dealing with verses which contradict your silly ideas.

 

[Desert Reign]

For the record, for anyone else still listening, I never said I had studied ancient Greek for two years full time on its own. Jerry assumed that and he assumed wrongly. I only mentioned that as a sort of rough minimum he would need to become proficient enough to begin to query other translators. I was being generous. I don't think that any amount of study by Jerry would be enough to overcome the obvious bias and pride he exhibits. But I may be wrong. The silly thing is: he thinks I was boasting about having merely done 2 years at it. As I said before, he really has no idea what serious study entails. As far as I am aware, I have never boasted about my academic history or experience. I have always simply posted what I consider to be the facts (or analysis) of the issue at hand. If others want to discuss that, I am more than happy to do so. All I have done is to present facts. Jerry is obviously embarrassed at that because he has no ability to refute those facts. It is however laughable - as well as sad - that even though he knows he has no ability to do so, he still manages to make proclamations that other people's work is defective. He aims to destroy and not to build up. There is a time to destroy, but there is also a time to build up. Jerry knows one but not the other and so he limps, lop-sided through life, unable to ever contibute anything good, criticising others but never having the ability to set his own case forward due to his pride and unwillingness to put in the study that constructive thought requires. At any rate, he has confirmed that he has no intention of dealing with the real issues here. So I'm off now.

 

[Tambora]

Luke 22 KJV
(1) Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.


(7) Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

 

[Danoh]

For the record, for anyone else still listening, I never said I had studied ancient Greek for two years full time on its own. Jerry assumed that and he assumed wrongly. I only mentioned that as a sort of rough minimum he would need to become proficient enough to begin to query other translators. I was being generous. I don't think that any amount of study by Jerry would be enough to overcome the obvious bias and pride he exhibits. But I may be wrong. The silly thing is: he thinks I was boasting about having merely done 2 years at it. As I said before, he really has no idea what serious study entails. As far as I am aware, I have never boasted about my academic history or experience. I have always simply posted what I consider to be the facts (or analysis) of the issue at hand. If others want to discuss that, I am more than happy to do so. All I have done is to present facts. Jerry is obviously embarrassed at that because he has no ability to refute those facts. It is however laughable - as well as sad - that even though he knows he has no ability to do so, he still manages to make proclamations that other people's work is defective. He aims to destroy and not to build up. There is a time to destroy, but there is also a time to build up. Jerry knows one but not the other and so he limps, lop-sided through life, unable to ever contibute anything good, criticising others but never having the ability to set his own case forward due to his pride and unwillingness to put in the study that constructive thought requires. At any rate, he has confirmed that he has no intention of dealing with the real issues here. So I'm off now.

Sorry to hear you too... go.

It is Jerry who needs to go...

At this point, I end my own participation on this forum.

There is simply no point in attempting to explore things on this forum, only to have Jerry derail them.

 

[patrick jane]

KJV - is fine for me - i have NIV also -

i have read from most all others for concordance -

i always read from my KJV if i have a choice. i don't need to learn Greek or Hebrew to understand God's Word. i will never be convinced otherwise

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

i always read from my KJV if i have a choice. i don't need to learn Greek or Hebrew to understand God's Word. i will never be convinced otherwise

:up:

 

[Bright Raven]

What's wrong with KJV only?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is however laughable - as well as sad - that even though he knows he has no ability to do so, he still manages to make proclamations that other people's work is defective.

As I said, there are twelve different versions of the Bible which translate Matthew 26:17 without adding the words "feast of," words which are not found in the Greek text. So I did not need to depend on my own knowledge of the Greek language.

Despite this you said:

If you want to retranslate passages differently to what hundreds of translators have translated before you, then you ought to to have some proper knowledge of ancient Greek. When you've done 2 years of full time study on that subject alone, then I'll listen to you.

Since the translation which I believe is true matches exactly with twelve other translation why would you say that you will not listen to me until I have at least 2 years of study of Greek? Do you think that you know more about Greek than those twelve translators do about the proper translation of Matthew 26:17?

Of course all you are doing is trying to trash me in the hope that no one will notice that you continue to refuse to address what I said about this verse:

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?" (Mk.14:12).​

You have had several chances to answer my remarks about that verse but you continue to run and hide from my remarks. You would rather talk about anything and everything rather than my remarks on that verse.

However, it is hilarious to see you run away from my remarks as fast as you can, just like a dog with his tail between his legs!

 

[Tambora]

However, it is funny to see you run away from my remarks as fast as you can, just like a dog with his tail between his legs!

:down:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

At any rate, he has confirmed that he has no intention of dealing with the real issues here. So I'm off now.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Wonder what happened to Desert Reign?

I want to see how he is going to argue that the 14th day of the month is the same exact day as the 15th.

 

[Tambora]

What's wrong with KJV only?

Nothing.

 

[Tambora]

Wonder what happened to Desert Reign?

He's sick of you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

He's sick of you.

You are just making excuses for Desert Reign because he just runs and hides from the truths I presented.

Perhaps you can convince us that the 14th day of the month is the same exact day as the 15th? Or will you also run and hide from the truths which I presented?

 

[Tambora]

You are just making excuses for Desert Reign because he just runs and hides from the truths I presented.

Nah.

Perhaps you can convince us that the 14th day of the month is the same exact day as the 15th? Or will you also run and hide from the truths which I presented?

Foolish man, DR has not even tried to say that the 14th is the exact day as the 15th.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Foolish man, DR has not even tried to say that the 14th is the exact day as the 15th.

That is what he will have to do in order to defend his idea that the translation at Matthew 26:17 in the KJV is not a blunder!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

"You better run......you better hide!"- Pat Benatar

 

[Tambora]

That is what he will have to do in order to defend his idea that the translation at Matthew 26:17 in the KJV is not a blunder!

No, he wont. Because there is nothing wrong with the translation.
The only problem is your understanding of the translation.

Others have tried to explain it to you. But you just stuff your ears and ignore them.
That's why sooooo many folks are sick to death of you, Jerry.
You don't want to study it out with folks. You just want to soapbox, pound the podium, and throw more hissies declaring anyone that does not follow you is wrong.