ECT There is one Gospel/salvation, Heb 2:3

[dodge]

Proving yet again, that YOU don't know what you are talking about: Gentiles are not referred to as "sheep" in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but "dogs"!

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

...
Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Matthew 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Why is it you never finish the story ?15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

This woman was a gentile !

I guess it was not convenient to quote the following for you:

In Jesus there is neither Jew nor gentile etc.

al 3:28
There is no longer Jew or Gentile,[fn] slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I know why some MADist consider themselves dogs they act just like dogs.

Here is another gentile that Jesus spoke with.

Mat 8:8
The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

FYI, the Centurion was a gentile "dog".


Mat 8:9
For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

Mat 8:10
When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Mat 8:13
And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.


Hello ! The gentile dog's faith was honored by Jesus. Your ilk has nothing but lies, deceptions and stale Pharisee ism !

These 2 "dogs" looked pretty good and there faith was honored by Jesus.

Your ilk has no clue about the true things of God nor the Spirit of God's word.

 

[Interplanner]

Was Abram's name changed to Abraham? If so, why?

Because it was to become true in Christ. I knew this would happen, that D'ism would make people take the beautiful truth of the worldwide faith and go intra- or inter-Israel with it. It's the believers in Christ, and it is the ever-growing total of people who have faith.

 

[Interplanner]

Proving yet again, that YOU don't know what you are talking about: Gentiles are not referred to as "sheep" in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but "dogs"!

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

...
Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Matthew 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

The thing that needs to be proven, heir, is that that barricade was to be overcome; it is racist. It is against the drift of the NT by any standard. D'ism is such a parasitic force!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I knew this would happen, that D'ism would make people take the beautiful truth of the worldwide faith and go intra- or inter-Israel with it.

Why do you refuse to believe what is written in the Scriptures about the fate of the nation of Israel? Why do you so proudly deny what is written in this prophecy concerning that nation?:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

Here we can see that the "fathers" of those who will make up the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Israel because it was them who broke the covenant. And since the fathers are the physical descendants of Israel then that means that those who will make up both houses will also be the physical descendants of Israel.

And all of those physical descendants, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, will know the LORD and they will have their sins forgiven. So the following words of Paul where he says that "all Israel will be saved" are referring to the physical descendants of Israel:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

Clearly these things have never happened in the past so those of us with true faith understand that they will be fulfilled in the future.

But you deny that they ever will!

 

[Interplanner]

Why do you refuse to believe what is written in the Scriptures about the fate of the nation of Israel? Why do you so proudly deny what is written in this prophecy concerning that nation?:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

Here we can see that the "fathers" of those who will make up the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Israel because it was them who broke the covenant. And since the fathers are the physical descendants of Israel then that means that those who will make up both houses will also be the physical descendants of Israel.

And all of those physical descendants, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, will know the LORD and they will have their sins forgiven. So the following words of Paul where he says that "all Israel will be saved" are referring to the physical descendants of Israel:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

Clearly these things have never happened in the past so those of us with true faith understand that they will be fulfilled in the future.

But you deny that they ever will!

Yes, because that is not how Heb 10 interps it! Nothing about the land, nothing that hints any reason to be there. Why would you resume the priesthood in Judea, when he "has passed through the heavens"? What a joke!

You cannot prove that Rom 11 is future. It is about what took place. it was future to Isaiah, but that does not mean future to Christ or Paul. All of those things were true in Christ and in the Gospel. and there is nothing about land restoration, NOR NEED THERE BE.

Your constructs are so simpleton.

 

[glorydaz]

Proving yet again, that YOU don't know what you are talking about: Gentiles are not referred to as "sheep" in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but "dogs"!

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

...
Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Matthew 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

There were lots of Jews scattered abroad...those who had been cut off from the nation for years. I wonder if that's who the "other sheep" were.

John 11:49-52 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.​

 

[Danoh]

The thing that needs to be proven, heir, is that that barricade was to be overcome; it is racist. It is against the drift of the NT by any standard. D'ism is such a parasitic force!

Why is it you never finish the story ?

Because that was not the point heir was rightly making.

What you brought up in your response to her post, is a different point.

One that was dictated by the pecking order of Israel FIRST that God was then still operating in accordance with.

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Case in point...

Mark 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. 7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Only after she acknowledged her place below Israel; does He bless her.

7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

Another...

Luke 7:1 Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum. 7:2 And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. 7:3 And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.

7:4 And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: 7:5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.

7:6 Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:

Note that in the above - note that that Gentile ALSO viewed himself as under Israel's table.


7:7 Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 7:10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

This here...

7:4 And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: 7:5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.

Is this here...

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Which is what this Post-Trib description of a blessing is based on...

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

To the least of MY Brethren?

Per that Abrahamic Covenant - Any kindness shown "the People" - the Lord's Brethren (Israelites) during the Tribulation prior to the Lord's return.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

On every instance of that, as to that, that The Lone Rangerette (heir :chuckle cited in her post to you, dodge, she was right; bro :think:

 

[Danoh]

There were lots of Jews scattered abroad...those who had been cut off from the nation for years. I wonder if that's who the "other sheep" were.

John 11:49-52 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.​

Yep.

Daniel 9:7 O LORD, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Those of...

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

But there were also there, that day, those of "the children of God that were scattered abroad" - their fellow Israelites.

2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Their brethren, which were scattered abroad...

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

Whose LORD? THEIR God.

Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Your constructs are so simpleton.

Believing the scripture is rather simple.

 

[dodge]

Because that was not the point heir was rightly making.

What you brought up in your response to her post, is a different point.

One that was dictated by the pecking order of Israel FIRST that God was then still operating in accordance with.

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Case in point...

Mark 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. 7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Only after she acknowledged her place below Israel; does He bless her.

7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.

7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

Another...

Luke 7:1 Now when he had ended all his sayings in the audience of the people, he entered into Capernaum. 7:2 And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. 7:3 And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant.

7:4 And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: 7:5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.

7:6 Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:

Note that in the above - note that that Gentile ALSO viewed himself as under Israel's table.


7:7 Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. 7:10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

This here...

7:4 And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: 7:5 For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.

Is this here...

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Which is what this Post-Trib description of a blessing is based on...

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

To the least of MY Brethren?

Per that Abrahamic Covenant - Any kindness shown "the People" - the Lord's Brethren (Israelites) during the Tribulation prior to the Lord's return.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

On every instance of that, as to that, that The Lone Rangerette (heir :chuckle cited in her post to you, dodge, she was right; bro :think:

Danoh, the point was that every person who approached Jesus through faith Jew or gentile was treated the same and not rejected, and actually scripture says the centurions faith was the greatest He had seen in Israel. There is a side that MAD ignores or at the least glosses over which proves Jesus treated everyone who had faith the same.

 

[Interplanner]

Danoh, the point was that every person who approached Jesus through faith Jew or gentile was treated the same and not rejected, and actually scripture says the centurions faith was the greatest He had seen in Israel. There is a side that MAD ignores or or at the least glosses over which proves Jesus treated everyone who had faith the same.

The least of my brothers is not confined to such an event, nor is it confined to that race.

The so called GT was the ordeal Israel went through was in that generation, and the final judgement was originally expected right after. But that part was delayed (not the destruction of Israel).

Danoh's lines are completely unnatural and are in all the hundreds of commentaries of D'ism and Ryrie about which the club is so self-righteously claiming not to touch.

Jesus did seek out his own people first because of their advantage in explaining the Gospel to the nations once taught by him. He had roughly 220 missionaries ready to go when the Spirit worked and Acts 2 happened.

 

[Right Divider]

The least of my brothers is not confined to such an event, nor is it confined to that race.

The so called GT was the ordeal Israel went through was in that generation, and the final judgement was originally expected right after. But that part was delayed (not the destruction of Israel).

So you are a dispensationalist too? Some parts delayed? Interesting....

The great tribulation will be FAR more than that little picnic in 70 AD.

Danoh's lines are completely unnatural and are in all the hundreds of commentaries of D'ism and Ryrie about which the club is so self-righteously claiming not to touch.

Ryrie is NOT MAD. He is Acts 2 and therefore very confused. You and he have much in common.

 

[Danoh]

Danoh, the point was that every person who approached Jesus through faith Jew or gentile was treated the same and not rejected, and actually scripture says the centurions faith was the greatest He had seen in Israel. There is a side that MAD ignores or at the least glosses over which proves Jesus treated everyone who had faith the same.

The point is that His blessing anyone during that time prior to Israel's having been concluded having continued in the Unbelief of their forefathers, had been in accordance with those aspects of the Abrahamic Covenants still in effect.

Said Covenant had Israel with direct and FIRST access to any blessing from God; but any Gentile desirous of blessing from God had to approach Him through a member of His people: Israel.

Spoiler

In fact, after Israel was concluded having continued in said Unbelief, God used that aspect of their Abrahamic Covenant to show through a Gentile (Cornelius) that Israel (through God's interruption of Peter's words to him), that God had concluded to Unbelieving Israel "under sin" or "sinners of the Gentiles."

At which point He was THEN no longer respecting (going by) whether one was a Jew or a Gentile.

What you are doing is reading later, no distinction status, into that earlier, Israel First and go through Israel, status.

That changed after this...

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Notice how that the following ends in the same way as that...

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Notice what that leads to...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Which was what this was about...

Acts 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

In other words, God had concluded both were now on an equal footing as to access to Him now...

The very principle Paul later reminded Peter of having dissed...

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Which takes that back to where Romans 3 leaves off AFTER God has concluded both "under sin..."

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Should any of this throw you, just reread it a few times - these things wind in and out throughout their whole narrative.

Suffice it to say that AFTER Unbelieving Israel was concluded "under sin" with the Gentiles, per this...

Romans 3:19 NOW WE KNOW that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

This THEN came into effect...

Romans 3:21 BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Quit reading what was later, into what was earlier, bro :think:

 

[Danoh]

...

Danoh's lines are completely unnatural and are in all the hundreds of commentaries of D'ism and Ryrie about which the club is so self-righteously claiming not to touch. ..

Yo, books based expert :chuckle:

A very simple principle for ya...

Should any of your ever endless books "about" assert - and therefore agree with - my belief that "Christ died for our sins," that does not mean I got that from said book - duh-uh.

You are simply clueless when it comes to such kinds of observations on your part.

Your decades old OVER RELIANCE on your ever endless books "about" has long since rendered you incapable of seeking out possible holes in your conclusions before you allow yourself to settle on them

:rotfl:

 

[dodge]

The point is that His blessing anyone during that time prior to Israel's having continued in the Unbelief of their forefathers, had been in accordance with those aspects of the Abrahamic Covenants still in effect.

Said Covenant had Israel with direct and FIRST access to any blessing from God; but any Gentile desirous of blessing from God had to approach Him through a member of His people: Israel.

In fact, after Israel was concluded having continued in said Unbelief, God used that aspect of their Abrahamic Covenant to show through a Gentile (Cornelius) that Israel (through God's interruption of Peter's words to him), that God had concluded to Unbelieving Israel "under sin" or "sinners of the Gentiles."

At which point He was THEN no longer respecting (going by) whether one was a Jew or a Gentile.

What you are doing is reading later, no distinction status, into that earlier, Israel First and go through Israel, status.

That changed after this...

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Notice how that the following ends in the same way as that...

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Notice what that leads to...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Which was what this was about...

Acts 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: 10:10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

In other words, God had concluded both were now on an equal footing as to access to Him now...

The very principle Paul later reminded Peter of having dissed...

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Which takes that back to where Romans 3 leaves off AFTER God has concluded both "under sin..."

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Should any of this throw you, just reread it a few times - these things wind in and out throughout their whole narrative.

Suffice it to say that AFTER Unbelieving Israel was concluded "under sin" with the Gentiles, per this...

Romans 3:19 NOW WE KNOW that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

This THEN came into effect...

Romans 3:21 BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Quit reading the later, into the earlier, bro :think:

The whole purpose of Jesus leaving heaven and coming to earth is summed up in John 3:16, which for some reason no one who accepts MAD seems to be able to grasp unless it is filtered through MAD beliefs.

Jesus came for the whosoever and whosoever is neither Jew nor gentile as that is exactly what happened in reality. Through Jesus' sacrifice salvation is offered to "all".

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The so called GT was the ordeal Israel went through was in that generation,

Made up.

 

[Danoh]

The whole purpose of Jesus leaving heaven and coming to earth is summed up in John 3:16, which for some reason no one who accepts MAD seems to be able to grasp unless it is filtered through MAD beliefs.

Jesus came for the whosoever and whosoever is neither Jew nor gentile as that is exactly what happened in reality. Through Jesus' sacrifice salvation is offered to "all".

Why is He dealing with Israel in Matthew thru Early Acts?

Spoiler

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

A ruler of who?

3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

A master of who?

3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How was that to be dispersed to all the world?

Through Abraham's multiplied seed, upon their redemption by the One Seed.

Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Luke 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them. 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Why beginning at Jerusalem?

Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

When?

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

After what?

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

After what?

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Bro, you cannot hold to a PreTrib Rapture for the Body while Israel goes through the Tribulation prior to the Lord's return to deliver them from said wrath to at last make them His people over the Earth, only for you to then turn around and confuse the one with the other.

Matthew thru Early Acts still have Israel first, and blessing through Israel in view.

His blessing the world of access to the Son's finished work through that nation after His return after His outpouring of His wrath...was interrupted, and a different; a direct access to all, was then offered...for a time.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Their continued Unbelief resulted in the temporary interruption of His plans for the Earth through them...

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Jesus did seek out his own people first because of their advantage in explaining the Gospel to the nations once taught by him.

Made up. He was only SENT to them.

 

[Right Divider]

Made up. He was only SENT to them.

So many people can't put a simple 2 and 2 together to get 4.

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

​

John 20:21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(20:21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. ​

Duh....

 

[Danoh]

So many people can't put a simple 2 and 2 together to get 4.

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

​

John 20:21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(20:21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. ​

Duh....

Yep:thumb: