The Trinity

[keypurr]

Exodus 33 and Numbers 12. It says Moses saw God, that he talked face to face, and then when he asks to see His Glory he is told that Moses cannot see his face. The point being that Moses did see God, but there is more than one way of "seeing" someone. Obviously Exodus does not contradict Exodus and it uses that phrasing back to back.

When Christ say no man has seen God I know that your verses need a better understanding. Any translation can mask the intent of any verse. That is why we must prove all things.

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[keypurr]

Keypurr, Paul acknowledged Jesus as God. See the passages above.

I disagree, he said that the son is a form of God. Paul never wrote that Jesus Christ is God. But he is the highest of all creation made Lord of all by his God. The point being, the Father is greater than all. Christ is not equal to his God. I see the Father as the only true God, everything else is a creation. I see God's first creation as the express image, the spirit son, this son God used to create all.

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[Rosenritter]

When Christ say no man has seen God I know that your verses need a better understanding. Any translation can mask the intent of any verse. That is why we must prove all things.

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You seem to have your own unique personal translation that is beholden to nothing but your own will.

 

[Bright Raven]

I disagree, he said that the son is a form of God. Paul never wrote that Jesus Christ is God. But he is the highest of all creation made Lord of all by his God. The point being, the Father is greater than all. Christ is not equal to his God. I see the Father as the only true God, everything else is a creation. I see God's first creation as the express image, the spirit son, this son God used to create all.

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Wrong! See John 1:1, 14 Jesus is not created.

John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[keypurr]

Did his real words pass away? Or is this passage a forgery?

Luk 21:33 KJV
(33) Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

His word will never pass away but what does that have to do with the subject matter? God is a spirit and so is Christ. Christ is the High Priest, the mediator between God and mankind.

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[1Mind1Spirit]

No, he didn't take credit for it. :think:

Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Bump.

 

[keypurr]

You seem to have your own unique personal translation that is beholden to nothing but your own will.

I compare my thoughts from over thirty translations that I have. I look for the content in the words. Who does not read and consider what they read. I an one that does not blindly accept what most do. I take full responsibility for my thoughts on scripture. I feel God has blessed me with some understanding of his words. No one,including my self,knows all about the scriptures. I have had a Bible in my have for over seventy years and I am still learning. I share what I believe without demanding others to agree. My love is to all, friend or foe.

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[keypurr]

Wrong! See John 1:1, 14 Jesus is not created.

John 1:1 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 New King James Version (NKJV)

The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

How many times must I show you BR?

Was Jesus born? If you say yes then he is a creation.

Is there an express image? Yes, that also then is a creation for all images are creations.

You are not truly interested in seeking what is in scripture friend. You pick and choose what you wish to see. To find truth every verse needs to be studied and understood.

You can not have a God and be God, is that simple. Use the logic that you have BR. It is unreasonable to see John 1 the way you have been taught.

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[Bright Raven]

How many times must I show you BR?

Was Jesus born? If you say yes then he is a creation.

Is there an express image? Yes, that also then is a creation for all images are creations.

You are not truly interested in seeking what is in scripture friend. You pick and choose what you wish to see. To find truth every verse needs to be studied and understood.

You can not have a God and be God, is that simple. Use the logic that you have BR. It is unreasonable to see John 1 the way you have been taught.

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Does Jesus have an earthly father?

He is the EXACT image of the Father.

You are as any non believer Keypurr, You twist scripture to fit your belief. You do not carefully interpret the text for what it says.

 

[keypurr]

Does Jesus have an earthly father?

He is the EXACT image of the Father.

You are as any non believer Keypurr, You twist scripture to fit your belief. You do not carefully interpret the text for what it says.

1 No

2 No, the spirit that entered him is. God is a spirit, the exact image is also a spirit.

You need to point your finger at yourself BR. I do not misquote what in written. You and the churches do.

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[jamie]

Theos is the Greek as translated from the early Aramaic. So I question if Theos is the correct word. I have no doubts that Christ is a god, but I can not elevate him to the level of his Father.

Nor can we elevate the Joint Chief of Staff to the level of Commander-in-Chief.

God had a reason for inspiring the NT to be written in Greek rather than Aramaic.

 

[jamie]

Is there an express image? Yes, that also then is a creation for all images are creations.

Do you deny Jesus was conceived by God's Spirit?

The person conceived by God's Spirit is God's Son, do you agree?

Hebrews 1:1-2 "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."

It is God's Son who became the express image of his Father, the same as us.

Are you not an express image of Jesus, Israel's Christ?

 

[keypurr]

Nor can we elevate the Joint Chief of Staff to the level of Commander-in-Chief.

God had a reason for inspiring the NT to be written in Greek rather than Aramaic.

I think that was Satan's doing. Greek added a mixture of their mythology in it. The early fathers were torn between the two. Some Aramaic words can not be rightly translated into the Greek. I really should not comment as I am not qualified to do so. But the books I have suggest that this is so.

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[keypurr]

Do you deny Jesus was conceived by God's Spirit?

The person conceived by God's Spirit is God's Son, do you agree?

Hebrews 1:1-2 "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."

It is God's Son who became the express image of his Father, the same as us.

Are you not an express image of Jesus, Israel's Christ?

Jesus is the flesh son of God. But that in no way makes him God. God is a position not a name. If the Captain of the ship has a son is that son the Captain? No, he is just the Captain's son. YHWH is a spirit, Jesus was a man. Christ, the spirit son came into Jesus to become flesh. Being the express image of the Father and being given the fullness of the Father he/it is a creation, not God. He is firstborn of all creatures, creation. All things were created through this express image, but he still not God. He is the son, made Lord of all, by his God.


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[keypurr]

Do you deny Jesus was conceived by God's Spirit?

The person conceived by God's Spirit is God's Son, do you agree?

Hebrews 1:1-2 "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."

It is God's Son who became the express image of his Father, the same as us.

Are you not an express image of Jesus, Israel's Christ?

To be the EXPRESS IMAGE you must be a SPIRIT like your creator. Man was made in the image of God not the express image. The express image is only one, he was with the Father at the creation. He is the spirit who was hovering over the face of the waters in Genesis 1. Consider that he is a spirit of God, not God.

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[patrick jane]

To be the EXPRESS IMAGE you must be a SPIRIT like your creator. Man was made in the image of God not the express image. The express image is only one, he was with the Father at the creation. He is the spirit who was hovering over the face of the waters in Genesis 1. Consider that he is a spirit of God, not God.

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Colossians 1:15 KJV - Colossians 1:17 KJV -

 

[Lon]

Thanks Lon,

I am a believer in the living temple. The Spirit fills the temple. If we do not ask God to enter into the temple then the adversary will take up the vacancy.

Revelation 3:20
John 14:7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
John 14:8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

We do share some of the same relationship characteristics, but we are not God. not one of us accepts worship. Not one of us is seen the Father when you see us. He was clearly a different kind of man than you and I. If your theology doesn't notice that, or stops recognizing further recognition, then our theology is either insufficiently educated, or superseded beyond scripture allowance. I desire not to fall off on either side for mistruth that isn't mine to embrace.

 

[steko]

Colossians 1:15 KJV - Colossians 1:17 KJV -

True! But.... he has a self-imposed mental block.

 

[Rosenritter]

I disagree, he said that the son is a form of God. Paul never wrote that Jesus Christ is God. But he is the highest of all creation made Lord of all by his God. The point being, the Father is greater than all. Christ is not equal to his God. I see the Father as the only true God, everything else is a creation. I see God's first creation as the express image, the spirit son, this son God used to create all.

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Isn't my hand a form of myself? "My Father is greater than I" he said, yet he spoke with the same authority and he made himself equal with God. "My Lord and my God" he said. "Mighty God, Everlasting Father" it prophesied. Paul acknowledged Jesus as God, substituting the name of Jesus where the old Testament says LORD.

 

[Rosenritter]

I compare my thoughts from over thirty translations that I have. I look for the content in the words. Who does not read and consider what they read. I an one that does not blindly accept what most do. I take full responsibility for my thoughts on scripture. I feel God has blessed me with some understanding of his words. No one,including my self,knows all about the scriptures. I have had a Bible in my have for over seventy years and I am still learning. I share what I believe without demanding others to agree. My love is to all, friend or foe.

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But you still aren't answering the questions I ask of you. Paul equated Jesus with LORD, substituting Jesus in the text where we have LORD. Jesus made himself God as he forgave sin. John says that the Word was not created but always present and was made flesh. The infant's name was Jesus, and Jesus continued to answer to the name Jesus throughout his earthly life. Jesus uses the names and titles of God freely, including first and the last, beginning and the end, and a new one Alpha and Omega... titles that were used for "there is no other God" in Isaiah.

If you were being blessed with such understanding I would think that the Holy Spirit would teach you the answers. I think you are trusting too much in your own personal translation.