ECT The Same Yesterday, and Today, and For Ever

[Jerry Shugart]

But you are questioning Jesus being the same.

Paul speaks of the "inner man" and the way he is clothed. The "inner man" refers to the "soul" as contrasted with his body. I do not believe that the Lord Jesus was "made flesh" until He was born of Mary. So I cannot believe that the Lord Jesus was ever in a flesh and blood body before He was born of Mary.

But I do believe that He was both Man and God prior to coming to the earth.

After all, Adam was made in the image of God and it was in the image of second Person of the Godhead, Jesus Christ, in whom Adam was made.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul speaks of the "inner man" and the way he is clothed. The "inner man" refers to the "soul" as contrasted with his body.

The inner man is the spirit inside a man. A soul is a physical body made alive by a person's own spirit.

I do not believe that the Lord Jesus was "made flesh" until He was born of Mary.

I believe that too, except that I would say he had flesh, but unlike ours, it was not flesh that ages and dies. (I am speaking of a flesh like body, but our flesh ages and dies, his did not.)

So I cannot believe that the Lord Jesus was ever in a flesh and blood body before He was born of Mary.

But I do believe that He was both Man and God prior to coming to the earth.

He was, in a way, though not flesh and blood like ours, but rather he had a Spiritual Physical Body, like the one he had after he ascended back to heaven.
When Jesus comes again, we will see him as he is and we will be given a body like his Spiritual Physical Body. He had first what we will receive last at the resurrection, the redemption of our bodies. Not the exact same body we have on earth; but a spiritual body that does not die.

After all, Adam was made in the image of God and it was in the image of second Person of the Godhead, Jesus Christ, in whom Adam was made.

That is right. I am so glad for this deep discussion that must do not contemplate.

 

[glorydaz]

So according to you He had only one nature before being made flesh and then He added another nature when He was born of Mary and yet He didn't change?

According to me, the verse in question was not speaking of His nature at all but His enduring faithfulness.

 

[glorydaz]

Paul speaks of the "inner man" and the way he is clothed. The "inner man" refers to the "soul" as contrasted with his body. I do not believe that the Lord Jesus was "made flesh" until He was born of Mary. So I cannot believe that the Lord Jesus was ever in a flesh and blood body before He was born of Mary.

But I do believe that He was both Man and God prior to coming to the earth.

After all, Adam was made in the image of God and it was in the image of second Person of the Godhead, Jesus Christ, in whom Adam was made.

Is there any other theologian that you know of that makes that claim?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Jerry Shugart and God's Truth Find Common Ground

Jerry Shugart and God's Truth Find Common Ground

Paul speaks of the "inner man" and the way he is clothed. The "inner man" refers to the "soul" as contrasted with his body. I do not believe that the Lord Jesus was "made flesh" until He was born of Mary. So I cannot believe that the Lord Jesus was ever in a flesh and blood body before He was born of Mary.

But I do believe that He was both Man and God prior to coming to the earth.

I believe that too, except that I would say he had flesh, but unlike ours, it was not flesh that ages and dies. (I am speaking of a flesh like body, but our flesh ages and dies, his did not.)

He was, in a way, though not flesh and blood like ours, but rather he had a Spiritual Physical Body, like the one he had after he ascended back to heaven.

Blasphemy! Two persons that deserve one another, along with their Mormon affiliates that carry on with similar views.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?74351-Our-triune-God&p=4350641&viewfull=1#post4350641

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?74351-Our-triune-God&p=4353361&viewfull=1#post4353361


Sigh.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Is there any other theologian that you know of that makes that claim?

Sure there are...

http://mit.irr.org/god-was-once-man-us-finessing-off-putting-mormon-doctrine

Sigh.

AMR

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Is there any other theologian that you know of that makes that claim?

Yes, and that theologian is Sir Robert Anderson.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, and that theologian is Sir Robert Anderson.

How does he explain this verse?

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Blasphemy!

So you actually believe that before the Lord Jesus came to the earth He only had one nature and then when He put on flesh then all of a sudden He had two natures. You must not believe the following:

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).​

Please explain how the Lord Jesus could possibly not change when He took on an entirely different nature.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

How does he explain this verse?

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

What is your point you are trying to make about that verse?

 

[glorydaz]

What is your point you are trying to make about that verse?

Just wondering if he thinks Jesus was always a man and a woman.....you know, human kind.

Is it that he considers our being made in the image of God to include our very nature?

I mean, I've heard some pretty weird stuff coming from GT, but you don't seem to be saying the same that she says. So, I'm hoping you're trying to make some other point. One that I may be missing.

 

[glorydaz]

So you actually believe that before the Lord Jesus came to the earth He only had one nature and then when He put on flesh then all of a sudden He had two natures. You must not believe the following:

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).​

Please explain how the Lord Jesus could possibly not change when He took on an entirely different nature.

Did you read the verse in context? You know the danger of doing that.

Was He still righteous, faithful, all knowing, still holding all things together, still worthy of worship, still able to raise the dead, still able to read the thoughts of men, still speaking the words of God Almighty?

Did taking on humanity degrade Him in any way? Did He change who He was when He took on the form of a burning bush, or led the children through the wilderness as a pillar of cloud and of fire?

 

[Lon]

The Scriptures reveal that the Lord Jesus has two natures--that of Man and that of God.

He was that way when He walked the earth and that way now while He is in heaven. The Scriptures also reveal that He does not change:

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever" (Heb.13:8).​

So did He take on another nature when He was made flesh? Did He go from having one nature unto having two?

If that is true then how could it be said that He is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever?

Perhaps the following verse gives us a clue which answers that question:

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever" (Gen.3:22).​

Thoughts?

For me and I quote this passage often Colossians 1:16-20 There is literally nothing that exists 'without Him.' Thus, for me, becoming a man is well within His knowledge and existence. It does comply with the 'same.' Different? In that sin entered the world and He was tempted as we are. Some of the creeds touch on this. :e4e:

 

[glorydaz]

For me and I quote this passage often Colossians 1:16-20 There is literally nothing that exists 'without Him.' Thus, for me, becoming a man is well within His knowledge and existence. It does comply with the 'same.' Different? In that sin entered the world and He was tempted as we are. Some of the creeds touch on this. :e4e:

Don't think you can get away with that and run off. Read the rest of the posts.

 

[Lon]

Don't think you can get away with that and run off. Read the rest of the posts.

You and I might vary a bit but I have no problem with this:

Rather Jesus Christ is alway the same, whether He was creating all things, or dying on the Cross.

He is Lord of Lord and King of Kings from the first to the last.
He preached the Gospel to Abraham before He came in the flesh, and preached it to the lost sheep of Israel, while in the flesh.

His compassions they fail not...

Lamentations 3:22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. 23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. 24 The Lord is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. 25 The Lord is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.​

IOW, whatever I might miss, you certainly will or have cleaned up :e4e:

 

[glorydaz]

You and I might vary a bit but I have no problem with this:


IOW, whatever I might miss, you certainly will or have cleaned up :e4e:

You nut. Be diplomatic then.

 

[God's Truth]

Just wondering if he thinks Jesus was always a man and a woman.....you know, human kind.

Is it that he considers our being made in the image of God to include our very nature?

I mean, I've heard some pretty weird stuff coming from GT, but you don't seem to be saying the same that she says. So, I'm hoping you're trying to make some other point. One that I may be missing.

Woman was made for man.

 

[glorydaz]

Woman was made for man.

Which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Just wondering if he thinks Jesus was always a man and a woman.....you know, human kind.

Is it that he considers our being made in the image of God to include our very nature?

Our nature, yes. But Paul describes the physical body in the sense of being clothed upon. Or the outward man as contrasted with the inward man.

So, I'm hoping you're trying to make some other point. One that I may be missing.

I wish that you would tell me how you think that it is possible that the Lord Jesus had only one nature when He came to the earth and then took on another nature when He was born of Mary but did not have a change in His very nature.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Thus, for me, becoming a man is well within His knowledge and existence.

What do you think would be the origin of the Lord Jesus' human soul? Did He create His own soul?