jeremysdemo
New member
some people can't help it Doormat,
it's a disease, it begins as foolishness but ends in madness.
keep shinin
jerm
it's a disease, it begins as foolishness but ends in madness.
keep shinin
jerm
The Sabbath is a What?
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
Choleric
New member
Oh, so are you repenting of telling people to keep the law of moses or be damned? If so, then I will stop telling people you have a works based gospel. :thumb:
Choleric
New member
some people can't help it Doormat,
it's a disease, it begins as foolishness but ends in madness.
keep shinin
jerm
But we never give up on you all. There is yet hope as long as you are above ground.
genuineoriginal
New member
He was alive, and the church was told to take him back
2 Corinthians 2:6-11
You are adding to scripture by claiming that he was handed over to satan to be killed.
There was no need to discuss his salvation. The unrepentant will not be saved. If they ever had their name written in the book of life, it will be blotted out for unrepentance
Doormat
New member
Cognitive dissonance is "strong delusion."
| In modern psychology, cognitive dissonance is the feeling of discomfort when simultaneously holding two or more conflicting cognitions: ideas, beliefs, values or emotional reactions. In a state of dissonance, people may sometimes feel "disequilibrium": frustration, hunger, dread, guilt, anger, embarrassment, anxiety, etc. |
Worth watching:
| A lesson in cognitive dissonance | |
Choleric
New member
It says "hand him over for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved". Destruction of the flesh is just that, Destruction of the flesh. His spirit was still going to be saved.
His repentance saved his physical life, his salvation was not in question, as the passage clearly states.
Doormat
New member
Proverbs 29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Choleric
New member
Sounds like you have described yourself very well. I guess you realize the conundrum you are in while the bible tells Christians they are free from the law, while you tell them they are going to be damned for not keeping it.
That is good. The first step to healing is realizing the problem. :thumb:
Now, repent of your dead works and put your faith in Christ. Hebrews 6:1
genuineoriginal
New member
We are saved by faith.
Paul said the man is a wicked person.
1 Corinthians 5:13 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. |
The wicked do not have faith.
2 Thessalonians 3:2 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. |
Choleric
New member
Guess I'm not accusing you falsely after all. Glad we cleared that up :thumb:
Doormat
New member
1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Choleric
New member
And you keep right on. Why do you insist on calling God a liar. If God says a man is free from the law of sin and death, why do you constantly look for loopholes? Why do you have such a hard time believing what you read?
You passage in Peter says the saved are saved. Galatians is a matter of fact, not telling you how to be saved. If you are saved it is assumed you don't do those things. If you do (1 Cor 5 and 1 Cor 11:30) God will kill you yet you are saved. The revelation passage is again a statement of fact not a "how to" on salvation.
Again, God says a saved person is sealed and free from the law if sin and death. No matter how hard you try to tell God He is wrong it won't change facts.
Salvation by grace removes boasting, for it is not of works but of grace. If it were of works it would be no more grace. Where is boasting then?
You aren't going to be saved because of you otherwise it would make your salvation a debt God pays you.
And a dead person is incapable of being found guilty by the law. Try it sometime. Find a dead man and get him to pay his parking ticket and see how far you get.
Doormat
New member
You have falsely accused me again. Only in your delusion is me quoting the word of God calling God a liar.
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes, there is another method of assigning guilt, based on the law written in the heart and mind.
Romans 14:14,20,23 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. |
Here is Paul's answer to the dilema:
Romans 14:3 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. |
If I keep the Sabbath day because it is right to keep it, you are not to despise me.
If you do not keep the Sabbath day because it is meaningless to keep it, I am not to judge you.
I am fully persuaded that keeping the Sabbath is the right thing for a Christian to do, because it is a commandment of God. I do not believe God gave meaningless commandments, but that all the commandments of God have meaning for Christians today.
You appear to be fully persuaded that keeping the Sabbath is a meaningless thing for a Christian to do, because it was not a commandment for the Gentile believers.
Romans 14:5 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. |
My initial point in this thread is that Christians that say the Sabbath commandment does not apply have no grounds for saying that the other nine commandments apply.
You have made it clear that you believe that the commandment against adultery does not apply to Christians because you believe the man committing adultery with his father's wife was saved despite breaking the commandment.
Maybe you can explain why Paul would even want the man kicked out of fellowship if all sins are permitted to Christians.
Choleric
New member
This is not speaking of eternal damnation. The word "damn" does not always equal eternal hellfire damnation.
The we can agree. When people like doormat say that a person who does not keep the law of moses is going to go to hell, then he is a liar and is teaching a false gospel.
I have only made clear what the bible teaches. We are free from the law of sin and death. But we are called to live holy lives and to fulfill God's will. Keeping the commandments is a great thing to do, but to say that a person's salvation is based on doing so is wrong. To say that is to say that Jesus died for nothing. What is the difference between OT and NT if you have to keep the law still to be saved? What is the "good news"?
Paul explained why. He said "dont keep company with one who is a brother who commits fornication." He went on to say, "a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump"
Choleric
New member
OK. You can continue to tell God He is a liar when He tells believers they are free from the law of sin and death. I obviously can't stop you. You can tell Jesus He died in vain and keep trying to earn what God wants to give your freely.
genuineoriginal
New member
Of course "damn" in the Bible always means eternal hellfire damnation.
Who falsly told you it didn't?
Then we can not agree. When people like doormat and myself say that we must keep the Sabbath because it is a command of God, it is a true statement about us and our beliefs, because if we believe it is a sin to break the Sabbath commandment, then we are bringing eternal hellfire damnation on ourselves if we break it without repentance. This makes your judgmental statements on the matter false.
If you live a holy life, you will do by nature what the law requires. If we look into the holy law and do what it says, then we are doers of the law and not hearers only.
Paul talks about the difference between works and grace.
If salvation comes by God looking favorably upon us, then salvation does not come from our own efforts. But if salvation comes from our own efforts, then salvation does not come from God looking favorably upon us.
There are two things at play here: our own efforts and God looking favorably upon us.
We cannot make God give us salvation through our own efforts, it is only given to those God looks favorably upon.
Will God look favorably upon us is we continue to act just like the children of disobedience that incurred His wrath through their actions? No, not at all. We must live holy lives in order to have God look favorably upon us.
Will God look favorably upon us is we just live holy lives? No, not at all. We must love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength in order to have God look favorably upon us.
Will God look favorably upon us is we just live holy lives and love God? No, not at all. We must love our neighbors as ourselves.
Becoming worthy of the kingdom of God does not happen in a single moment of belief, but is gained through faithfully loving God and living the way He wants us to for the rest of our lives.
If we fall, we can get back up again and continue as long as we have breath.
If we turn away, we can repent (turn back) and be faithful as long as we have breath.
Some of us keep the Sabbath because it is our way of showing ourselves and God that we love Him, as it is written, "this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments".
Others do not see keeping the Sabbath the same way, but God will judge their hearts and intentions, and if He likes what He sees then they will be looked upon favorably, too.
genuineoriginal
New member
You are mistaking the Gospel with salvation.
The "good news" is about the time of the kingdom.
Matthew 4:17,23 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. |
Revelation 14:6-7 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. |
Doormat
New member
Is keeping the seventh day sabbath "a great thing to do?" Yes or no.