You didn't pick that up from the first part of my answer?
No.
There, is that clear enough for you?
The Sabbath is a What?
- Thread starter Jefferson
- Start date
No.
There, is that clear enough for you?
That is not my position.
Are you so incapable of reason that you take the idea that the wages of sin are not suffered for not keeping the commandments that means the wages of sin are then not suffered at all?
Those who do not believe suffer the wages of sin because they have not believed and thus received the gift of God, which is eternal life through Christ Jesus, our Lord.
And keeping the commandments will not save them from this if He does not know them.
Doormat
New member
Your position is contrary to sound doctrine.
Sin is transgression of the law (1Jo 3:4).
The wages of sin is death (Ro 6:23).
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Choleric
New member
I'm surprised you stuck around this long. False doctrines don't like the light of Scripture exposing their error and are usually In a hurry to scurry back to the darkness
I am telling it like it is and you have no idea what that passage means or you wouldn't use it that way
The point is the man was unrepentant and was going o be saved anyway.
You just made that up. It says the exact opposite. The man was unrepentant and was being handed over to satan to be killed. The verse then says he will be saved anyway. He is unrepentant and will be killed while in his state of unrepentance and will still be saved. You are inventing theology while adding to the passage.
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. You are taking a verse out of context while ignoring the fact that the man was to be saved anyway while being killed by satan.
Yet the same author in the same book said "if we sin we have an advocate with the Father". Why do you ignore that fact?
You are again making things up. He was "to be saved" even though he was killed by satan for not repenting.
Funny the passage says the EXACT OPPOSITE. He was to be killed and saved anyway. It does not say "saved if he repents". It says "for the destruction of the flesh that he may be saved". No
Matter how hard you try to delete verses from your bible they are there nonetheless.
You are telling us to keep the sabbath and that a sinning Christian is going to hell. Are you saying that there is another method of assigning guilt because the bible says its the law that assigns guilt and Christians are not under the law and are free from the law of sin and death.
Only in your imagination.
You apparently don't understand your own argument. If a Christian is in fear of hell because of failure to keep the law then by your own logic that person is trying to be justified by keeping the law.
You should get a grip on your theology and stop ignoring verses that show your error. Let the bible form your doctrine, don't form the bible around your "doctrine"
Doormat
New member
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Doormat
New member
I don't ignore that fact. I said that he could be grafted in again.
For whatever reason your cognitive function is impaired to a degree that it's obvious to me a discussion with you will be fruitless and needlessly time consuming.
See the scriptures above for the rebuttal to the rest of your post.
A human was with a sabbath, not a sabbath with a human. That doesn't mean we should alter the NT to falsely support Sunday worship. We have 2 days of rest because of the technological advancements of Western Civilization.
For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
-Romans 4:14-15
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for
you are not under law but under grace.
-Romans 6:14
Those under grace are under no law and therefore cannot transgress the law.
Those not under grace live in transgression of the law, but in this dispensation the law is not in effect in that manner for anyone, and it was never in effect in that manner for anyone other than Israel.
The law was in effect during the covenants with Israel, those covenants are on hold until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. [Romans 11:25]
genuineoriginal
New member
The implications are clear:
1- The man was caught in incest
2- he was unrepentant
3- the church was told to have no fellowship with him
4- he was kicked out so he could choose between his flesh and salvation
5- if he chose to mortify his flesh while excommunicated, then he could still be saved in the day of the lord
genuineoriginal
New member
The man was not killed by satan.
Instead, Paul wrote the Corinthians a second time to tell them the man had suffered enough with the excommunication, so they should allow him back into fellowship.
2 Corinthians 2:6-11 6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many. 7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow. 8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him. 9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things. 10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; 11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices. |
genuineoriginal
New member
Hebrews 10:16 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; |
Do you have the laws of God in your heart and written in your mind?
Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. |
How are you establishing the law?
Choleric
New member
You just made that up. He was unrepentant and it was because the church had given up on him that he was handed over to satan to be killed. "Mortifying the flesh" or whatever any of you insert into the passage is an invention to make your theology fit.
Fact is, he was going to be killed while in a state of unrepentance and would be saved anyway. He did repent which was why he lived but the question of his salvation was not discussed.
Furthermore, those who The Lord killed who were abusing the Lords table were also saved even though God killed them for their sin of abusing the lords table.
You and doormat are inventing theology and adding to the passage in 1 Cor 5 to make your theory fit. It does not which is why you add to the scripture.
A man who is dead to the law and free from the law is free from the law of sin and death and cannot be lost because there is no law to convict him as he is dead to that law.
Doormat
New member
Then using your logic, for those not under grace there is necessarily a law, else there could be no transgression. So your position is in error.
Then you teach everyone saved or unsaved can covet with impunity (no wages for sin) when unbelievers are supposed to be dead in their transgressions (wages of sin). Instead, try believing this:
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Notice in Revelation 21:8 that "unbelieving" is listed separately from other sins condemned by the law, which proves your position is error.
Then why did you excise the sabbath commandment from the Decalogue if the whole thing is on hold. Your position is that it is the right thing to do to keep the remaining nine, but the spirit in you apparently has something against the sabbath specifically.
Your position is evidently total confusion, but God is not the author of confusion.
Doormat
New member
Stop bearing false witness.
YahuShuan
New member
In response to His "taught ones" Yeshua said...Mat 24:20-23 “And pray that your flight does not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there shall be great distress, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would be saved, but for the sake of the chosen ones those days shall be shortened. If anyone then says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe."
The Sabbath is indeed made for man, in fact the SabbathS, are made for man. To MEET with GOD at the time HE SAYS, because if we do, we will not be those who are "caught unawares". If we do what Yah says, we get blessed. If we don't, we get cursed. The reason it all had to be written to Moses, and then given to the PEOPLE OF YAHUWEH, is because the writings on their heart at the time were not working, they had MIXED what Yah desired, with what they themselves desired and thought was better than what Yah said He wanted. As they so do today. But this Babylon is "Babylon the Great", and therefore, as seen by HIS set-apart ones is the absolute worst case of mixing that which is to be SET APART, with that which is ABOMINABLE. And Yah warned you all of each of the things HE BELIEVES are abominable, and most of you spit in His Face. Doing just what Satan did to get thrown out forever. And "teaching others to do so also".
BAD MOVE!
That is why, now, in this day, which is that day, the latter days, the hours just prior to the Wrath of Yah, we have no choice but to OBSERVE that Rev 22:11, 12 “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work..." Has it's purpose. See wholeheartedly, those who are not hearing the truth to take it in, ARE TOTALLY BLINDED. They are blinded, on purpose, BY GOD. As Yashue said, those who hear His words AND DO THEM, are HIS. Those who are not, would be blinded, SO THAT they will not turn from their wicked ways to BE saved. They are blinded with the curse of not seeing in the mirror. So they are blinded to believe they have no sin, and therefore, nothing to repent of. Since that is their position, they can not turn from any wicked ways, because they believe not to have any.
So Yeshua says, "go into your chambers for yet a little while". And I say, don't blow your cover anymore, when you are truly needed, there will be ears who "hunger and thirst after righteousness". Go into your chambers and polish your armor...ALL OF IT. Indeed, you will need it..."the Sword is coming". Stand behind it! Not in front of it
May Yahuweh bless and keep HIS PEOPLE! May He cause His face to shine upon THEM! May His countenance rise upon them and give them PEACE. May their names be written in the LAMBS book of LIFE! And simply remember, if you DO what Yah says...YOU ARE HIS PEOPLE.
Those who don't...aren't.
The Sabbath is indeed made for man, in fact the SabbathS, are made for man. To MEET with GOD at the time HE SAYS, because if we do, we will not be those who are "caught unawares". If we do what Yah says, we get blessed. If we don't, we get cursed. The reason it all had to be written to Moses, and then given to the PEOPLE OF YAHUWEH, is because the writings on their heart at the time were not working, they had MIXED what Yah desired, with what they themselves desired and thought was better than what Yah said He wanted. As they so do today. But this Babylon is "Babylon the Great", and therefore, as seen by HIS set-apart ones is the absolute worst case of mixing that which is to be SET APART, with that which is ABOMINABLE. And Yah warned you all of each of the things HE BELIEVES are abominable, and most of you spit in His Face. Doing just what Satan did to get thrown out forever. And "teaching others to do so also".
BAD MOVE!
That is why, now, in this day, which is that day, the latter days, the hours just prior to the Wrath of Yah, we have no choice but to OBSERVE that Rev 22:11, 12 “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work..." Has it's purpose. See wholeheartedly, those who are not hearing the truth to take it in, ARE TOTALLY BLINDED. They are blinded, on purpose, BY GOD. As Yashue said, those who hear His words AND DO THEM, are HIS. Those who are not, would be blinded, SO THAT they will not turn from their wicked ways to BE saved. They are blinded with the curse of not seeing in the mirror. So they are blinded to believe they have no sin, and therefore, nothing to repent of. Since that is their position, they can not turn from any wicked ways, because they believe not to have any.
So Yeshua says, "go into your chambers for yet a little while". And I say, don't blow your cover anymore, when you are truly needed, there will be ears who "hunger and thirst after righteousness". Go into your chambers and polish your armor...ALL OF IT. Indeed, you will need it..."the Sword is coming". Stand behind it! Not in front of it
May Yahuweh bless and keep HIS PEOPLE! May He cause His face to shine upon THEM! May His countenance rise upon them and give them PEACE. May their names be written in the LAMBS book of LIFE! And simply remember, if you DO what Yah says...YOU ARE HIS PEOPLE.
Those who don't...aren't.
Choleric
New member
stop lying to people with your works based "gospel"
Doormat
New member
| Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. |
Then ...
| Acts 8:18,19 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. But Peter said unto him, Your money perish with you, because you have thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. |
From the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles:
| For He nowhere has dissolved the law, as Simon pretends, but fulfilled it; for He says: “One iota, or one tittle, shall not pass from the law until all be fulfilled.” For says He, “I come not to dissolve the law, but to fulfil it.”[8] |
Who is pretending that on this thread?
| XX. Now the law is the decalogue, which the Lord promulgated to them with an audible voice,[10] before the people made that calf which represented the Egyptian Apis.[11] And the law is righteous, and therefore is it called the law, because judgments are thence made according to the law of nature, which the followers of Simon abuse, supposing they shall not be judged thereby, and so shall escape punishment. This law is good, holy, and such as lays no compulsion in things positive. |
Don't be like Simon. You've been warned (Ezekiel 18:24, 1Timothy 5:20).
Doormat
New member
You are falsely accusing me of lying and having a works based gospel when I have not lied and do not have a works based gospel. Stop bearing false witness (Ezekiel 18:24, 1 Timothy 5:20, Hebrews 10:26-29).