The Sabbath is a What?

[Choleric]

because the relevant contradiction was in the first part?

So it is your claim that Matthew 24 and 25 are not the same discourse? Good to know :thumb:

we all know you went off on a doctrinal tangent, that was covered pretty well already in other post.

Interesting you twice ignored my request for you to explain how it was a tangent. I understand you'd rather change the subject. Bible rejectors don't like the bible very much.

it was completely unrelated to the passage in the context of the post it was given in, which was for personal devotional application.

It is completely relevant to the entire discourse of Matt 24-25. You of course wouldn't know that since its in the bible.

HEy, if I don't see you later have a good weekend C, :wave2:

keep shinin

jerm

Same to you. I hope you realize God is not a liar this weekend. That would be a good weekend for you :wave:

 

[Choleric]

So it is your claim that Matthew 24 and 25 are not the same discourse? Good to know :thumb:



Interesting you twice ignored my request for you to explain how it was a tangent. I understand you'd rather change the subject. Bible rejectors don't like the bible very much.



It is completely relevant to the entire discourse of Matt 24-25. You of course wouldn't know that since its in the bible.



Same to you. I hope you realize God means what He says this weekend. That would be a good weekend for you :wave:

 

[jeremysdemo]

wonder why you cut my response off?

because the relevant contradiction was in the first part?

So it is your claim that Matthew 24 and 25 are not the same discourse? Good to know :thumb:

May claim was and is, to which you agreed with, the Matthew 25:1-13 parable is not a parallel or synopsis of Luke 12:35-40, as previously explained, but Matthew 24:43-44 is.

whatever else your blammerin on about really is of no relevance, the parable wasn't being given in any doctrinal context in the first place, I've made that clear in several post 1 ,2, 3.

I appreciate your concern for my "lie" that you agreed with that, and your hopes that I would not think God to be a liar as well, but I assure you all those worries are not only without merit but unnecessary to trouble yourself with.

now might be a good time to read the commandments of God, Exodus 20:16, not that they seem to mean anything to you as you make a practice of it daily to break them.....:nono:

keep shinin

jerm

 

[Choleric]

May claim was and is, to which you agreed with, the Matthew 25:1-13 parable is not a parallel or synopsis of Luke 12:35-40, as previously explained, but Matthew 24:43-44 is.

I simply clarified which you seem incapable of seeing, that Matt 24 and 25 are ONE DISCOURSE. Your low IQ is a hindrance to your comprehension.

whatever else your blammerin on about really is of no relevance, the parable wasn't being given in any doctrinal context in the first place, I've made that clear in several post 1 ,2, 3.

Of course it was given in a doctrinal context, just that now you realize you look like an idiot in doing so and you are trying to cover your tracks

I appreciate your concern for my "lie" that you agreed with that, and your hopes that I would not think God to be a liar as well, but I assure you all those worries are not only without merit but unnecessary to trouble yourself with.

When you don't understand that Luke 12:36 means what it says, you are in a great deal of trouble.

now might be a good time to read the commandments of God, Exodus 20:16, not that they seem to mean anything to you as you make a practice of it daily to break them.....:nono:

keep shinin

jerm

You should learn your bible. Study it, don't just read it.

 

[jeremysdemo]

May claim was and is, to which you agreed with, the Matthew 25:1-13 parable is not a parallel or synopsis of Luke 12:35-40, as previously explained, but Matthew 24:43-44 is.

I simply clarified which you seem incapable of seeing, that Matt 24 and 25 are ONE DISCOURSE. Your low IQ is a hindrance to your comprehension.

then there was no need to say I was correct at all....:think:

whatever else your blammerin on about really is of no relevance, the parable wasn't being given in any doctrinal context in the first place, I've made that clear in several post 1 ,2, 3.

Of course it was given in a doctrinal context, just that now you realize you look like an idiot in doing so and you are trying to cover your tracks

balderdash, every word, every scripture in that post was for you specifically in regards to your rejection of the gospel.

There was no mention whatsoever by me of doctrine or the doctrinal significance of the parable.

When you don't understand that Luke 12:36 means what it says, you are in a great deal of trouble.

I never mentioned that passage, neither did I make any comments about it other than where it's synopsis can be found.
As I said before, and now in duplicate, the concern is appreciated, even tho it is unfounded. :thumb:

You should learn your bible. Study it, don't just read it.

Good advice for anyone I'm sure, although let it be noted I was the one whom knew where the synopsis of Luke 12:35-40 was found in Matthew, not you, QED.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[genuineoriginal]

Saved people have passed from death to life. They are not waiting and hoping, they know they have it already and God says so. You disagree

I disagree with you, and believe what is written.

Galatians 5:5 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.​

 

[Choleric]

I disagree with you, and believe what is written.

Galatians 5:5 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.​

God says they are passed from death to life. You continue to call GOD A LIAR. They can also know they have eternal life. Until you build your doctrine with all of the bible, and not just parts, you will forever be wrong

 

[genuineoriginal]

God says they are passed from death to life. You continue to call GOD A LIAR. They can also know they have eternal life. Until you build your doctrine with all of the bible, and not just parts, you will forever be wrong

God is not a liar, you are a liar.

Romans 3:4 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.​

Why do you always want to be a liar?

1 John 3:14-15 14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.​

John said that only those that love their brothers have passed from death unto life, but those that hate their brothers are still in death.

Leviticus 19:17 17 You shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.​

You have shown that you hate your brothers, and are a murderer, because you refuse to rebuke sin and tell your brothers to live in sin.
You do not have eternal life in you, you are still in death.

 

[jeremysdemo]

was that really necessary GO?

surely you could have made the same point with the same scriptures without stooping to his level.

disappointed? ya, a little.

it would have been better to let him call you a liar,

and the let the scripture do so for him, Exodus 20:16, Romans 7:7.

keep shinin

jerm

 

[genuineoriginal]

was that really necessary GO?

surely you could have made the same point with the same scriptures without stooping to his level.

disappointed? ya, a little.

it would have been better to let him call you a liar,

and the let the scripture do so for him, Exodus 20:16, Romans 7:7.

keep shinin

jerm

Sorry brother,

I just couldn't stand back and hear him calling God a liar over and over without saying something about it.

His sin stays upon him until he repents, but he won't repent as long as he has his "I am already saved so now I can worship idols" mentality towards God's righteousness.

 

[Ktoyou]

Ok satan. Lets play "hath God said".

God said I have passed from death to life. You say He is a liar.

God said I can know right now that I have eternal life. You say He is a liar.

God said I am not under the law. You say the law can still convict me. You say He is a liar.

God says the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. You say God is a liar.

Your father the devil started out that way, "hath God said" and you are at it again.

Ok..OK, so he is having a fit, reporting everything. Just let him alone with his own beliefs, unless you think really CAN save him. Good deal?

 

[Choleric]

God is not a liar, you are a liar.

Yes, I am aware that you call "quoting Scripture" being a liar. That reflects very poorly on you btw

Romans 3:4 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.​

Why do you always want to be a liar?

1 John 3:14-15 14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.​

John said that only those that love their brothers have passed from death unto life, but those that hate their brothers are still in death.

Leviticus 19:17 17 You shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.​

Not sure why you are trying to change the subject? Fact is, you said you can't know you are saved until after death and then maybe only if you caused God to look favorably upon you by your good heart attitude.

I have shown you repeatedly from the bible that saved people have passed from death to life, and can know they are saved right now. You can't address those facts, nor how they contradict your theology, so you resort to changing the subject to deflect the conversation away from you being proven wrong and being in the precarious position of disagreeing with God.

You have shown that you hate your brothers, and are a murderer, because you refuse to rebuke sin and tell your brothers to live in sin.

Flat out lie. Please show from one of my posts where I have told anyone to live in sin. You cannot and therefore owe me an apology. Bearing false witness is pretty serious.

 

[Choleric]

Sorry brother,

I just couldn't stand back and hear him calling God a liar over and over without saying something about it.

:rotfl: You contradict dozens and dozens of verses in the bible and I am the one calling God a liar? :rotfl:

His sin stays upon him until he repents,

What sin is that exactly? Believing the bible? :rotfl: I can't believe you are saying it out loud:

Jesus "He who believes in me has passed from death to life"

GO "uh-uh, you have to have a good attitude and maybe you can be saved"

John "I write so you know you have eternal life"

GO "uh-uh, there is no way to know it until after you die"

and you have the audacity to say I am calling God a liar? :rotfl: you have got to be kidding...:rotfl:

but he won't repent as long as he has his "I am already saved so now I can worship idols" mentality towards God's righteousness.

I can tell you are getting frustrated as you are beginning to falsely accuse. I can't say I blame you as the bible is the constant enemy to your heretical salvation by works. But come on, do you have to resort to false witness? Unless of course you are going to show me where I said anyone can or should worship idols? You can't, so you will be left with the false witness, or with an apology headed my way soon.

Should I hold my breath? lain:

 

[genuineoriginal]

I am calling God a liar?

Yes, but it appears that you don't realize it yet.

I can tell you are getting frustrated

After many pages of having you falsely accuse me, I will admit that I did get frustrated.

It is great news to many people to hear that they can immediately gain forgiveness of all their sins and can now go out and bow down to idols without having to worry about God's wrath. This teaching pleases their itching ears, so they think it is the gospel.

However, if you bow down to idols, you are breaking one of the ten commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:8-10 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, 10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.​

"I am already saved", says the wicked person that does this, "that commandment was nailed to the cross."
However, breaking the commandment is transgressing the law, and John says to believing Christians that sin is transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​

"I am already saved", says the wicked person that does this, "I am not under the law, I am under grace."
However, Paul says to believing Christians that if you obey sin, you become the servant to sin.

Romans 6:15-16 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?​

"I am already saved," says the wicked person.
However, Peter says to believing Christians that if you are overcome by sin again and become a slave to sin again, then your final end will be worse than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:18-20 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.​

"I am already saved," says the wicked, and will not face the judgment.
However Paul kept warning the believing Christians that they should not think they stand, lest they fall.

1 Corinthians 10:5-12 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.​

Paul says that believing Christians should flee from idolatery.

1 Corinthians 10:14 14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.​

Paul says to believing Christians that no one that bows down to idols will have any part in kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.​

Paul kept telling believing Christians that they should not do the same things that the ten commandments say they should not do or they will not enter the kingdom. Yet, whenever I say the same thing, I am falsely accused of trying to work my way into salvation because I mention that it is forbidden in the ten commandments.

 

[Choleric]

After many pages of having you falsely accuse me, I will admit that I did get frustrated.

I am not falsely accusing you, I am repeating what you say alongside the bible to show you contradict the bible. Until you find a way to harmonize what the bible says with your theology you will be in error.

It is great news to many people to hear that they can immediately gain forgiveness of all their sins and can now go out and bow down to idols without having to worry about God's wrath. This teaching pleases their itching ears, so they think it is the gospel.

It is the gospel. Again, why not address the verses that say it. We are told "he has perfected FOREVER" those that are saved. He says we are "passed from death to life" and yet you say the bible is wrong.

Tell me what you think those verses mean? You have repeatedly ignored the verses I have posted that show you are in error. Unless you can make all the bible fit your doctrine, you do not have correct doctrine.

However, if you bow down to idols, you are breaking one of the ten commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:8-10 8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, 10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.​

This is why you are so funny. You get mad at me for "falsely accusing you" of being a judaizer and then you turn right around and tell me to keep the law to be saved. It is not false accusation to repeat what you say.

"I am already saved", says the wicked person that does this, "that commandment was nailed to the cross."
However, breaking the commandment is transgressing the law, and John says to believing Christians that sin is transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.​

I have never said a Christian can't sin, or that there are not consequences or sin. You are arguing with a straw man. The question is what happens to a Christian that sins. The answer is in the bible but you refuse to deal with it.

"I am already saved", says the wicked person that does this, "I am not under the law, I am under grace."
However, Paul says to believing Christians that if you obey sin, you become the servant to sin.

Romans 6:15-16 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?​

Does that verse say a sin ing Christian loses salvation? No it does not.

"I am already saved," says the wicked, and will not face the judgment.
However Paul kept warning the believing Christians that they should not think they stand, lest they fall.

1 Corinthians 10:5-12 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.​

I have never said that sin has no consequence. God can and will chasten his children even leading to death. But we have a dilemma that your doctrine cannot address:

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. -1 Corinthians 11:32

Please explain the above verse in light of your doctrine. Answer some questions:

1- who is the "we"
2- how is their chastening different than the chastening of the world?

Paul says that believing Christians should flee from idolatery.

1 Corinthians 10:14 14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.​

Paul says to believing Christians that no one that bows down to idols will have any part in kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.​

I have never said anything contrary to
That. What I have said is that you don't get saved or stay saved by doing or not doing those things. The verse above is a statement of fact. It does not say you get it by keeping the law or that you lose it by breaking the law.

We are not under the law. Why do you refuse to believe that?

Paul kept telling believing Christians that they should not do the same things that the ten commandments say they should not do or they will not enter the kingdom. Yet, whenever I say the same thing, I am falsely accused of trying to work my way into salvation because I mention that it is forbidden in the ten commandments.

I am not falsely accusing you, I am repeating what you say. You either are or you aren't saved by keeping the law. The bible says I am not and yet you say that I am. I agree with the bible.

Jesus says believers are passed from death to life and he will lose none and he will never forsake them.

If what you say is true, then how do you fit those verses into your doctrine? Answer them honestly, don't ignore them.

John said I can know I eternal life.

What is the "earnest of the spirit"?

What is the sealing?

What does it mean to be joint heir?

What is "once for all"

What is "perfected forever"

What is "he who has begun a work in you will complete it"?

Unless you can believe all those verses as they read, you need to take a long look at your doctrine.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Again, why not address the verses that say it. We are told "he has perfected FOREVER" those that are saved.

This appears to be the verse you are talking about.

Hebrews 10:14 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.​

It does not say He has perfected forever those that are saved, it says He has perfected for ever those that are sanctified.
Saved means "deliverance, preservation, safety"
Sanctified means "to separate from profane things and dedicate to God"

So, how are those separated from profane things and dedicated to God perfected?

The context of the verse shows that the sacrifices of the law is unable to purge the conscience of sin, and so is unable to make the comers perfect.

Hebrews 10 10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.​

However, we are sanctified through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.​

So, from the context, it appears that it is the santification that is perfected forever, because the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is able to separate us from profane things and dedicate us to God while purging our conscience of sins.
This interpretation is confirmed in the verses that follow:

Hebrews 10:15-18 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.​

By creating a new covenant, God is dedicating a people to Himself.
By putting His laws into their hearts and their minds, God is separating a people from profane things.
By choosing to forget their iniquities, God is perfecting the purging of conscience of sin in those He has separated out and dedicated to Himself.

The author of the epistle goes on to explain what that means in our daily lives:

Hebrews 10:23-24 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:​

So, because we are set apart and dedicated to God, we are to hold fast to our faith and provoke one another to love and to do good works.

And what happens if we refuse to do that?

Hebrews 10:26-27 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.​

Clearly, God will consider us to be adversaries if we do not hold fast to our faith and if we do not provoke one another to love and to do good works.

That does not sound like the verse is supporting OSAS.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You get mad at me for "falsely accusing you" of being a judaizer and then you turn right around and tell me to keep the law to be saved. It is not false accusation to repeat what you say.

This is the first time I have seen you accuse me of being a judaizer.
That is also a false accusation, because I am not telling you to get circumcised and keep all the doctrines of the Pharisees.

Hebrews 10:15-16 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

Just what do you suppose are the laws God writes into our hearts and in our minds?

God has separated out and dedicated to Himself a people under a new covenant confirmed through the blood of Jesus.
If the new people rebel against His laws and refuse to obey, do you really suppose that God will not do the same thing to them that He did to the others?

Hebrews 12:24-26 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.​

 

[Choleric]

This appears to be the verse you are talking about.

Hebrews 10:14 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.​

It does not say He has perfected forever those that are saved, it says He has perfected for ever those that are sanctified.
Saved means "deliverance, preservation, safety"
Sanctified means "to separate from profane things and dedicate to God"

But it says HE has perfected forever

The person doing the perfecting is Jesus, the tense is past and the time is forever. This shoots gigantic crater size holes in your "you can't know till you die" theory.

So, how are those separated from profane things and dedicated to God perfected? The context of the verse shows...

You have an opportunity to believe the bible instead of attempting to prove your "theory". Let's look at the passage again.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

They are perfected forever by Christ. The "them" is those that are sanctified. Now let's look at the context to see who is sanctified and more importantly, how they are sanctified. We don't have to do much work because we are told just a few verses back:

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We are sanctified. How? By the offering of Jesus. How many times? Once for all.

It is simple, easy and has nothing to do with you or your efforts or your works. I am sanctified by the offering of Jesus once for all. Again, not my effort, but God's provision. It is imputed without works.

that the sacrifices of the law is unable to purge the conscience of sin, and so is unable to make the comers perfect.

Hebrews 10 10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.​

However, we are sanctified through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 10 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.​

So, from the context, it appears that it is the santification that is perfected forever, because the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is able to separate us from profane things and dedicate us to God while purging our conscience of sins.

It is comparing the first testament, with the second:

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second

There goes the law. God took it away and established a second. Again, the book of Hebrews is a treatise on why Jesus is superior in every way:Better than Moses, better than angels, better Blood, better sacrifice, better priest.

This interpretation is confirmed in the verses that follow:

Hebrews 10:15-18 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.​

God said "their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. There is remission and therefor no more offering to be made. Again, the sacrifice of CHrist is better than that of the OT law. It is "once for all". That is how I am perfected and sanctified. It is by Jesus. By His offering and it is "forever" and "once for all". It couldn't be more clear than that.

By creating a new covenant, God is dedicating a people to Himself.
By putting His laws into their hearts and their minds, God is separating a people from profane things.
By choosing to forget their iniquities, God is perfecting the purging of conscience of sin in those He has separated out and dedicated to Himself.

All of Which God did by Himself.

The author of the epistle goes on to explain what that means in our daily lives:

Hebrews 10:23-24 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:​

So, because we are set apart and dedicated to God, we are to hold fast to our faith and provoke one another to love and to do good works.

I agree that a Christian should live a holy life. THe New testament is full of that. THe question is not whether we should, but what happens when we don't.

And what happens if we refuse to do that?

Hebrews 10:26-27 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.​

Clearly, God will consider us to be adversaries if we do not hold fast to our faith and if we do not provoke one another to love and to do good works.

You have to keep all of this in context. Again, the whole book of Hebrews was written to Jews who were in danger of going back to Judaism. The author compares Jesus to the whole OT system and shows how Jesus is better.

They are exorted in verse 23 to hold fast to their profession of faith. He is also telling them that if they go back to Judaism, there was no more sacrifice there as that system was abrogated.

"there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins". Remember, we were just told Jesus was offered "once for all". There is no more sacrifice for sins. Jesus is it.

That does not sound like the verse is supporting OSAS.

It simply boggles my mind how you can say that. We are told "He has perfected them FOREVER". It was "ONCE FOR ALL". I can't fathom why you have such difficulty with that???

 

[Choleric]

This is the first time I have seen you accuse me of being a judaizer.
That is also a false accusation, because I am not telling you to get circumcised and keep all the doctrines of the Pharisees.

Not sure where you get that definition of Judaizer but that is much simpler than that. From Websters dictionary:

Judaizer
JU'DAIZER, n. One who conforms to the religion of the Jews.

perhaps that is what you meant?

Hebrews 10:15-16 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

Just what do you suppose are the laws God writes into our hearts and in our minds?

They are God's laws. Again, you have seem to have a difficult time with understanding that I agree we are called to live holy lives, God will chasten those Christians who don't and we should live separated. The question is what happens if we don't.

God has separated out and dedicated to Himself a people under a new covenant confirmed through the blood of Jesus.

If the new people rebel against His laws and refuse to obey, do you really suppose that God will not do the same thing to them that He did to the others?

Hebrews 12:24-26 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.​

[/QUOTE]

Again, the book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews to 1) get some saved and 2) keep those in the faith who were tempted to return to Judaism. The author of Hebrews is saying that they should not refuse Christ. They didn't escape who refused Moses, When God spoke on earth (look at the verses before), when God's voice shook the earth, they won't escape those who refuse Christ and one day Christ will shake the earth and heaven.. It is trying to get those who refused Christ to consider Him.

And in the same chapter, we are told that God chastens those He loves as Sons.

I ask again. What does this verse mean:

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

[genuineoriginal]

They are God's laws.

And whose laws are the ten commandments?

Again, you have seem to have a difficult time with understanding that I agree we are called to live holy lives, God will chasten those Christians who don't and we should live separated. The question is what happens if we don't.

Hebrews 6:4-8 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.​

The end of those who fall away is to be burned.

John 15:6 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.​

Matthew 13:40 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.​

And in the same chapter, we are told that God chastens those He loves as Sons.

I ask again. What does this verse mean:

1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

It is a reference to this:

Deuteronomy 8:5-6 5 Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the Lord thy God chasteneth thee. 6 Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.​