The Preterists and Matthew 24:34

[Interplanner]

The joining makes it new RightD, but we can't escape all the technical terms that are used in Eph 2B-3A which give things usually thought to be Israel's to those who join by faith. There are about 15 there. Inheritance, membership, etc.

The upshot is that it was what was promised all along. It is Judaism that made it bound up in land, buildings, etc. We are now freed from ancestry or descendancy, and we are likewise freed from expecting anything to happen in the land or worship buildings. That's all old, human, Judaism, obsolete.

 

[Right Divider]

RightD,
in a way you are right about the Gentiles and the new covenant, because the other part of the new covenant is Christ. It was God and christ. Those who believe on Christ in are in him, and are likewise the Seed of Abraham. Not in themselves but in Him.

'sperma' and 'tekna' are not M-J, they are NT Greek.

2 Cor 3-5 is the most complete treatment of the current new covenant. I didn't interp anything, I just noticed that JerryS has never mentioned 2 Cor 3-5 in a whole week of talking about what he thinks is a future situation.

Once again you use strange terminology. The "current new covenant"? is there more than one? Will there be a new, new covenant.

It is completely clear from Jeremiah and the writer of Hebrews that quotes Jeremiah that the new covenant is with the house of Judah and house of Israel (i.e., the twelve tribes). You guys all deny the simple and clear teaching of scripture.

 

[Right Divider]

The joining makes it new RightD, but we can't escape all the technical terms that are used in Eph 2B-3A which give things usually thought to be Israel's to those who join by faith. There are about 15 there. Inheritance, membership, etc.

The upshot is that it was what was promised all along. It is Judaism that made it bound up in land, buildings, etc. We are now freed from ancestry or descendancy, and we are likewise freed from expecting anything to happen in the land or worship buildings. That's all old, human, Judaism, obsolete.

Nonsense, Gentiles could ALWAYS join with Israel.

Exo 12:48-51 KJV And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. (50) Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they. (51) And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.
​

What is NEW with Gods revelation to Paul is that Jews and Gentiles can be joined into ONE NEW MAN apart from any covenant. They are joint-heirs with Christ and not joint-heirs with Israel.

Just like Paul says, made NIGH BY THE BLOOD and NOT a covenant.

Eph 2:13 KJV But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
​

 

[Right Divider]

The joining makes it new RightD, but we can't escape all the technical terms that are used in Eph 2B-3A which give things usually thought to be Israel's to those who join by faith. There are about 15 there. Inheritance, membership, etc.

The upshot is that it was what was promised all along. It is Judaism that made it bound up in land, buildings, etc. We are now freed from ancestry or descendancy, and we are likewise freed from expecting anything to happen in the land or worship buildings. That's all old, human, Judaism, obsolete.

More amazing nonsense.

Gen 13:15-18 KJV For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (16) And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. (17) Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee. (18) Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mamre, which is in Hebron, and built there an altar unto the LORD.
​

God is NOT a liar, like you.

 

[Interplanner]

The OT is even more clear once interp'd by the NT! That's why I never work direct with the OT--not when there is almost 7 NT chapters on the new covenant.

re joining Israel
You're looking at the OT again in isolation. There is now a new arrangement where "it is not the natural children who are God's children but it is the children of promise who are regarded as Abraham's children." Rom 9:8. Which is how all this started with Abraham (he was Persian the moment before faith) and how the new entity is created.

So, back to the list of Eph 2B-3A: access to Messiah
citizenship in Israel
access to the covenants of the promise
hope
God
nearness to God
peace
oneness
membership status
fellow citizenship
membership in the household
participation in the temple
inheritance with Israel
membership in the one body
shares in the promise

...all these things are accomplished by faith in Christ. It means that some of the things that appeared to be exclusive or said to be legal entities were not after all because by faith in the Gospel the nations can share.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, I know those lines are there, too. That doesn't mean it was the fulfillment in Christ that was coming does it? That means it was the tutorial, the child-trainer stage, Gal 4.

And what does Heb 11 say: they weren't thinking of the country they had left behind. They weren't thinking of any country. They willingly let go of what they had in Israel. because of the reality of the new city, heavens and earth, a kingdom that "cannot be shaken" because anything on this earth can be and will be.

I sense your anger, and it is due to the prophecy industry trying to make 2P2P and literalism about Israel work. It does not.

 

[Right Divider]

The OT is even more clear once interp'd by the NT! That's why I never work direct with the OT--not when there is almost 7 NT chapters on the new covenant.

re joining Israel
You're looking at the OT again in isolation. There is now a new arrangement where "it is not the natural children who are God's children but it is the children of promise who are regarded as Abraham's children." Rom 9:8. Which is how all this started with Abraham (he was Persian the moment before faith) and how the new entity is created.

So, back to the list of Eph 2B-3A: access to Messiah
citizenship in Israel
access to the covenants of the promise
hope
God
nearness to God
peace
oneness
membership status
fellow citizenship
membership in the household
participation in the temple
inheritance with Israel
membership in the one body
shares in the promise

...all these things are accomplished by faith in Christ. It means that some of the things that appeared to be exclusive or said to be legal entities were not after all because by faith in the Gospel the nations can share.

I'll bet that you think that the OT starts in Genesis 1:1 and the NT in Matthew 1:1. :chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

Meaning what?

 

[Right Divider]

Meaning what?

Meaning that you have a very confused view of the Bible and what it teaches. That you inject a ton of personal opinion into your "NT interp". That you ignore and change scriptures that are crystal clear into something that meets the needs of your "NT interp".

 

[Interplanner]

Read the list yourself, it's all there in eph 2B-3A although in vertical form.

Ephesians was the widest circulated NT document; there is no destination in 1:1; it was left blank. It went nearly everywhere. So these are inescapable doctrines.

 

[tetelestai]

Nonsense, Gentiles could ALWAYS join with Israel.

Exo 12:48-51 KJV And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. (49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you. (50) Thus did all the children of Israel; as the LORD commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they. (51) And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.
​

What is NEW with Gods revelation to Paul is that Jews and Gentiles can be joined into ONE NEW MAN apart from any covenant. They are joint-heirs with Christ and not joint-heirs with Israel.

Just like Paul says, made NIGH BY THE BLOOD and NOT a covenant.

Eph 2:13 KJV But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
​

You fail to understand that Israel was subsequently divided into two nations. Then God divorced one of those nations.

You completely ignore these facts, and is one of the reasons why you don't understand the New Covenant.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes I try to use NT interp. One of the first things I notice is that the NT starts in Mt 1:1. I don't have the headache you do, or whatever made you say that.

 

[Interplanner]

Tet,
that's not in the list in Ephesians, so I'm not interested.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes I try to use NT interp. One of the first things I notice is that the NT starts in Mt 1:1. I don't have the headache you do, or whatever made you say that.

I knew that you would think something wrong like that.

 

[Interplanner]

Sorry RIghtD,
I thought you had something signficant to say.

Why don't you go through the list yourself and see what it means.

 

[Right Divider]

Read the list yourself, it's all there in eph 2B-3A although in vertical form.

Ephesians was the widest circulated NT document; there is no destination in 1:1; it was left blank. It went nearly everywhere. So these are inescapable doctrines.

What in the world is "Eph 2B-3A"?

What in world does "no destination in 1:1" mean?

Eph 1:1-2 KJV Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: (2) Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
​

This is how the book got its name.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You fail to understand that Israel was subsequently divided into two nations. Then God divorced one of those nations.

You completely ignore these facts, and is one of the reasons why you don't understand the New Covenant.

You obviously are unaware that both the house of Israel and the house of Judah will both receive the promises under the New Covenant:

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

Before anyone can receive the forgiveness of His sins they must first believe in the Lord:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​

There has never been a time when all those in the house of Israel and in the house of Judah have believed in the Lord Jesus and therefore had their sins forgiven

And since you have no place for the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-34 in your eschatology you must think that the Lord Jesus will break His promise that He will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Of course you would never admit that your ideas are in error even though your ideas mean that the LORD makes promises and then fails to fulfill His promises.

 

[tetelestai]

Tet,
that's not in the list in Ephesians, so I'm not interested.

It would probably help if we knew who the Ephesians were.

We need to look at the ten tribes from the House of Israel:

(1 Kings 14:15) And the Lord will strike Israel, so that it will be like a reed swaying in the water. He will uproot Israel from this good land that he gave to their ancestors and scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, because they aroused the Lord’s anger by making Asherah poles.

About 800 years later, Josephus said the following:

"the ten tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers" - “Antiquities of the Jews”, Book XI, Chapter V, Verse 2, p. 234.

The city of Ephesus was beyond the Euphrates River.

Let's look at how Paul addressed the Ephesians:

(Eph 1:5) Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Now, let's look at what Paul said to the Romans:

(Rom 9:4 ) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


IOW, the Ephesians Paul is addressing were not pagan Gentiles, they were descendants of the Israelites from the House of Israel.

 

[tetelestai]

You obviously are unaware that both the house of Israel and the house of Judah will both receive the promises under the New Covenant:

That's my point.

We know that the New Covenant was made by the shed blood of Christ Jesus on the cross.

Therefore, the House of Israel was joined with the House of Judah as Ezekiel said.

What you and others fail to understand, is that the Ephesians were descendants of these 10 tribes.

 

[john w]

That's my point.

We know that the New Covenant was made by the shed blood of Christ Jesus on the cross.
Therefore, the House of Israel was joined with the House of Judah as Ezekiel said.

What you and others fail to understand, is that the Ephesians were descendants of these 10 tribes.

I deny the New Covenant is in place, today, and thus "slap 'Jesus,'' according to you, asserting that what he did, is "not good enough," again, according to you.


Am I lost?


Another stalker, who thinks that I'm a "religious nut, whose is also lost, like you, suggested that I leave you be. Since she recommended it, and she is lost, headed for hell, and merely sits on the sidelines, and boos," viewing TOL, but never participating, I will not, and I ignore her, and dismiss her; but I do not ignore on TOl wolves, such as you.

Am I lost, Craigie?

Over 60 times I've asked you.