The Politically Correct

[Town Heretic]

He voted for Obama despite his opposition to abortion?

You should probably ask me and cut out the middle stalker, unless I make you nervous. I voted for Obama the first time and I voted against him more than for his opponent the second. Both times for different reasons. My vote wasn't on the issue of abortion, a thing settled as law and by a conservative appointed Court.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Did you also vote for Hillary?

 

[Town Heretic]

Did you also vote for Hillary?

No, and I'm not sure how you missed my one-man "Don't vote for the lesser of two weasels" effort prior to the election. I couldn't stand either candidate, thought they were the worst of what politics had to offer and I was equal parts saddened and offended by the offering.

I'll take a Sanders vs Buchanan over that match up. At least you'd have two honestly divergent positions rooted in a life-long and genuine perspective and not the megalomaniac parade that was our last election cycle.

I've just about split my presidential vote between the two parties since I've been at it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I couldn't stand either candidate, thought they were the worst of what politics had to offer and I was equal parts saddened and offended by the offering.

Has Trump been better or worse than you expected? What grade would you give him and why?

Thanks!

 

[ok doser]

... the issue of abortion, a thing settled as law...

You should stop pretending to be a Christian

 

[Town Heretic]

Has Trump been better or worse than you expected? What grade would you give him and why?

Thanks!

:think: It's a mixed bag, which I suppose is a plus given I didn't expect anything out of him. The market loves him and that has helped a lot of people I know, along with the economy. I like his activism for veterans. He blocked foreign aid money from funding abortion, which is a plus. The ANWR drilling bit tacked onto the tax bill was horrible. Gorsuch was a good nomination to the Court. His election and subsequent attention significantly impacted illegal immigration, which is a good thing. His recent handling of particulars wasn't, though that's been corrected. He has been a friend to NASA, which I count to the good. So better in many ways, all things considered. As expected in others.

 

[annabenedetti]

You should stop pretending to be a Christian

You should stop pretending that he's not.

 

[ok doser]

You should stop pretending that he's not.

At least you dont pretend to be a Christian any more

 

[Jerry Shugart]

:think: It's a mixed bag, which I suppose is a plus given I didn't expect anything out of him. The market loves him and that has helped a lot of people I know, along with the economy. I like his activism for veterans. He blocked foreign aid money from funding abortion, which is a plus. The ANWR drilling bit tacked onto the tax bill was horrible. Gorsuch was a good nomination to the Court. His election and subsequent attention significantly impacted illegal immigration, which is a good thing. His recent handling of particulars wasn't, though that's been corrected. He has been a friend to NASA, which I count to the good. So better in many ways, all things considered. As expected in others.

Thanks! Do you think that Hillary would have been able to do as well as Trump has?

 

[annabenedetti]

:think: It's a mixed bag, which I suppose is a plus given I didn't expect anything out of him. The market loves him

Pre- or post- trade war?

I like his activism for veterans.

Like "He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured." Or the way he treated the Khans? Or how he had to be shamed into following through on his promised donations to veterans' causes? Simply continuing programs already begun before he was in office doesn't seem like activism to me. Can you elaborate on his activism?

He blocked foreign aid money from funding abortion, which is a plus.

Not unexpected. Democrats revive the Mexico Policy when they're in office and Republicans have suspended it when they're in office, ever since Ronald Reagan.

The ANWR drilling bit tacked onto the tax bill was horrible.

Yeah. You know how that happened? After he got one phone call from a friend "who's in that world and in that business." As Trump tells it: "Ronald Reagan, and every president, has wanted to get ANWR approved. And after that, I said, oh, make sure that’s in the bill. It was amazing how that had an impact, that had a very big impact on me… I really didn’t care about it and then when I heard that everybody wanted it, for 40 years they’d been trying to get it approved, I said make sure you don’t lose ANWR."

And that's how Trump made that consequential decision. lain:

Gorsuch was a good nomination to the Court.

Gorsuch should never have had the opportunity. McConnell blocked that seat for 9 months.

His election and subsequent attention significantly impacted illegal immigration, which is a good thing.

In what way was it impacted and how is it a good thing?

His recent handling of particulars wasn't, though that's been corrected.

It hasn't, really. Those kids aren't back with their parents yet, and some may never be.

He has been a friend to NASA, which I count to the good.

His NASA budget cuts NASA's earth science and climate change programs, and a former astronaut thinks his "Space Force" as a sixth military branch is a "dumb idea," saying that's already under the purview of the Air Force. So I'm not sure how he's been a friend to NASA, other than signing a budget I'm quite sure he never read enough to know what was in it.

So better in many ways, all things considered. As expected in others.

There's a long way to go to even come close to considering all the things. So much so that the job is almost insurmountable. Cloward Piven's "orchestrated chaos." Rahm Emmanuel's "never let a good crisis go to waste." The right is doing the exact same thing for which they excoriated the other side.

 

[ok doser]

The right is doing the exact same thing for which they excoriated the other side.

and that's just not faaaaaiiiirrrrrrrr!!!!! :baby:


go hug a puppy

 

[annabenedetti]

At least you dont pretend to be a Christian any more

A different flavor of are you still beating your wife, right? You have no idea where I'm at in my faith, so don't pretend you do.

 

[annabenedetti]

and that's just not faaaaaiiiirrrrrrrr!!!!! :baby:


go hug a puppy

Who said anything about fairness, and why are you crying over it?

 

[ok doser]

...You have no idea where I'm at in my faith...

i'd say you're an open book, but you're so transparent you don't have to be


if you ever want to embrace Christ and leave whatever mess you've become behind, let me know

 

[Town Heretic]

Pre- or post- trade war?

Both.

Like "He’s not a war hero.

No, I was thinking of the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act, Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act, Veterans Educational Assistance Act, and a few other supports and measures I appreciate on the whole.

Not unexpected. Democrats revive the Mexico Policy when they're in office and Republicans have suspended it when they're in office, ever since Ronald Reagan.

And I've always agreed with the Republicans on the point, so it was a plus in my ledger.

Yeah. You know how that happened? After he got one phone call from a friend "who's in that world and in that business." As Trump tells it: "Ronald Reagan, and every president, has wanted to get ANWR approved. And after that, I said, oh, make sure that’s in the bill. It was amazing how that had an impact, that had a very big impact on me… I really didn’t care about it and then when I heard that everybody wanted it, for 40 years they’d been trying to get it approved, I said make sure you don’t lose ANWR."

And that's how Trump made that consequential decision.

Which doesn't surprise either of us.

Gorsuch should never have had the opportunity. McConnell blocked that seat for 9 months.

Which I protested, but Gorsuch had no part in it and agree or disagree with him (and I disagree with him on a number of important issues) he's a brilliant jurist and a solid appointment. Conservatives have every reason to be pleased about it.

In what way was it impacted and how is it a good thing?

The last figure I saw had illegal immigration down about 27%, which is a good thing. I think his presence and policies have a hand in that.

It hasn't, really. Those kids aren't back with their parents yet, and some may never be.

It has unless I've been misinformed and the policy is still ongoing in that particular application.

His NASA budget cuts NASA's earth science and climate change programs, and a former astronaut thinks his "Space Force" as a sixth military branch is a "dumb idea," saying that's already under the purview of the Air Force. So I'm not sure how he's been a friend to NASA, other than signing a budget I'm quite sure he never read enough to know what was in it.

His signing of the Space Administration Transition Authorization Act, which NASA's administrator said, "ensures our nation's space program will remain the world's leader in pioneering new frontiers in exploration, innovation, and scientific achievement" was a good, and I'm curious about his Directive 1 notion of a public/private approach to Mars missions.

There's a long way to go to even come close to considering all the things. So much so that the job is almost insurmountable. Cloward Piven's "orchestrated chaos." Rahm Emmanuel's "never let a good crisis go to waste." The right is doing the exact same thing for which they excoriated the other side.

I'm not lining up an effort at his reelection, but I think it's important to recognize the good along with the other and some of it has been, frankly, surprising.

You should stop pretending that he's not.

So he's still at that tired drum. Good grief. What a waste of time and energy. Well, that's life under the bridge I suppose.

Anna, he's not worth your time. He never was, bless you. If he wasn't trying to slap at you as well I'd have left him in the gutter he's made for himself. Now let's leave him to it together. What say you? He's a silly, malicious twit. What he doesn't know about Christ would fill...a soul.

Thanks! Do you think that Hillary would have been able to do as well as Trump has?

It's one thing to consider what is and another to attempt it with what hasn't been. I'd rather not speculate. I was opposed to her for similar reasons. I don't know how their differences would have manifested with any certainty beyond the observable.

 

[rexlunae]

Both.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average has been mostly flat on the year, actually down a bit. This is a notable change versus the last eight years. There could be any number of causes, but it coincides perfectly with the GOP tax cut taking effect. Most Presidents aren't as responsible for the health of the economy overall as people like to believe, but that and the tariffs he's introduced at least haven't helped the economy by any metric I've seen. It's hard to name anything he's done other than be lucky to follow Obama's roaring economy.

No, I was thinking of the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act,

Something of a mixed bag. It removes some of the protections for civil servants, which on the one hand could help to clean up problems in an inefficient agency like the VA, but it could also make it easier to pursue politicized attacks against them.

Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act, Veterans Educational Assistance Act

These passed Congress unanimously. There aren't a lot of Presidents who wouldn't sign them, and if they didn't the votes certainly exist for an override.

The last figure I saw had illegal immigration down about 27%, which is a good thing. I think his presence and policies have a hand in that.

At what cost?

It has unless I've been misinformed and the policy is still ongoing in that particular application.

The courts have started to act, but the problem is, if you separate a bunch of families, speaking a bunch of different languages, and don't keep track of whose children you're sending where, how can you possibly reunite them? Meanwhile, separate cases are winding their way through the court systems, and parents are getting deported without their children in some cases.

Refugees have a legal right under international and American law to apply for asylum. It is illegal to prevent them from doing so. Some of these parents apparently are still being told that they can get their children back by signing a voluntary removal order, waiving their right under the law. It's a monstrous choice to present to a parent.

His signing of the Space Administration Transition Authorization Act, which NASA's administrator said, "ensures our nation's space program will remain the world's leader in pioneering new frontiers in exploration, innovation, and scientific achievement" was a good, and I'm curious about his Directive 1 notion of a public/private approach to Mars missions.

That law is really just mostly restating what NASA already does. It's not that it isn't important, but it's not exactly revolutionary, and Bridenstein is the very first NASA administrator with no background in any of the areas that the agency works in. As a member of Congress, he was a climate change denialist. He hasn't turned out to be Scott-Pruitt-at-the-EPA bad, but...I doubt how comprehensive his grasp of it is. NASA has been doing public/private stuff forever. It's always been intended that work done at NASA would feed commercial industries, and in turn feed back into NASA.

I'm not lining up an effort at his reelection, but I think it's important to recognize the good along with the other and some of it has been, frankly, surprising.

Maybe, but it's hard for me to get past the treason.

 

[Rusha]

Maybe, but it's hard for me to get past the treason.

^ This ... and the deliberate cruelty and racism. He is solely responsible for the terror these babies and children are living through and the fact remains, he is enjoying their pain. The easiest way to control those brown people who he doesn't want in America is by inflicting pain/fear/harm to their children.

 

[annabenedetti]

Both.

I'd left this off previously:

The market loves him and that has helped a lot of people I know, along with the economy.

Has the market had a positive effect on opinions regarding Trump by the lot of people you know who've benefited monetarily from it? Smoothed over objections to his various other actions, behaviors and policies they might have been more vocal about otherwise?

No, I was thinking of the Veterans Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act, Veterans Appeals Improvement and Modernization Act, Veterans Educational Assistance Act, and a few other supports and measures I appreciate on the whole.

rex ably answered this.

And I've always agreed with the Republicans on the point, so it was a plus in my ledger.

How is it a plus for Trump when it would have happened regardless the Republican in the office?

Which doesn't surprise either of us.

It should greatly concern both of us that he's that easily influenced into making snap decisions with far-reaching consequences for people and environment, not to mention those made which have global political ramifications.

Which I protested, but Gorsuch had no part in it and agree or disagree with him (and I disagree with him on a number of important issues) he's a brilliant jurist and a solid appointment. Conservatives have every reason to be pleased about it.

You protested, but are pleased with the result? Then their job is complete. Ends justified the means, etc.

The last figure I saw had illegal immigration down about 27%, which is a good thing. I think his presence and policies have a hand in that.

I can only echo rex here: at what cost? Aren't we better than that, TH? I thought we were better than that. We're not, though, are we?

It has unless I've been misinformed and the policy is still ongoing in that particular application.

It's not corrected until the families are reunited. He (advised by Stephen Miller et al.) is personally responsible for the grief and anguish of thousands of children and their families. It was only public outcry which forced him to sign an executive order to end his own policy (which he lied about his responsibility for or his ability to suspend) - without that public outcry, the inhumanity would still be U.S. policy. He deserves no praise for this.

His signing of the Space Administration Transition Authorization Act, which NASA's administrator said, "ensures our nation's space program will remain the world's leader in pioneering new frontiers in exploration, innovation, and scientific achievement" was a good, and I'm curious about his Directive 1 notion of a public/private approach to Mars missions.

Leaving this also with rex.

I'm not lining up an effort at his reelection, but I think it's important to recognize the good along with the other and some of it has been, frankly, surprising.

Surprising enough for you to vote for him in 2020?

 

[annabenedetti]

^ This ... and the deliberate cruelty and racism. He is solely responsible for the terror these babies and children are living through and the fact remains, he is enjoying their pain. The easiest way to control those brown people who he doesn't want in America is by inflicting pain/fear/harm to their children.

^This - and the lying, and the corruption, the Russia mess, and the inept, non-transparent administration with the revolving door and the lying (did I say that already) by SHS and everyone else who's sold their soul to be part of that swamp. The crony capitalism, the profiting from the office, the outright flouting of ethics such that the former head of the Government Ethics Office has consistently had to refute Trump, like when Trump claimed it wasn't obstruction of justice to fire those investigating him. Then there are the insults to our allies while cozying up to dictators, his insults to people of color while maintaining that white supremacists have some really fine people, his willingness to start wars (wanted to know why we couldn't go into Venezuela and take it over), and did I mention the lying?

That only begins to scratch the surface. How can people not see this? His base are lost. They're gone. They have too much invested in Trump and their nationalism and racism and xenophobia and in many cases the idea of a God-determined leader of a Manifestly Destined country to turn back. The only way to fix it is to outvote it.

 

[Town Heretic]

Has the market had a positive effect on opinions regarding Trump by the lot of people you know who've benefited monetarily from it? Smoothed over objections to his various other actions, behaviors and policies they might have been more vocal about otherwise?

Not really, though a sustained economic upturn likely will return some of the popularity the president enjoyed among his base.

How is it a plus for Trump when it would have happened regardless the Republican in the office?

How isn't it a plus if he supports it? How isn't it?

It should greatly concern both of us that he's that easily influenced into making snap decisions with far-reaching consequences for people and environment, not to mention those made which have global political ramifications.

You say "us," but somehow it doesn't really feel like an "us." Seriously though, anyone who doesn't understand who Trump is by now probably voted for him.

You protested, but are pleased with the result?

That's not what I wrote, so no. I said that conservatives should be pleased. I'd rather have a moderate voice on the Court, but if it has to be someone more ideologically entrenched at least let him be an able jurist. And that he is.

Then their job is complete. Ends justified the means, etc.

Supra, I suppose. Or, I can recognize that LBJ did a good thing without being a good man. That sort of thing.

I can only echo rex here: at what cost?

A Trump presidency, which is largely ruining our image abroad and alienating and dividing at home.

Aren't we better than that, TH?

Most Americans aren't responsible for that election. So I suppose we are, if only by a few million at last count. And I'd suggest that many who voted for him haven't been satisfied by him, though if he gets sustained economic growth the left had better be prepared to do more than rend garments and demonize, however satisfying that might be for them. They'd better get ready for a serious challenge on the issues.

It's not corrected until the families are reunited.

No, that's correcting damage done by an ill-considered and wrong headed practice. And it's a necessary good, but the practice itself was ended, if only by virtue of a larger public expression of virtue.

He (advised by Stephen Miller et al.) is personally responsible for the grief and anguish of thousands of children and their families. It was only public outcry which forced him to sign an executive order to end his own policy (which he lied about his responsibility for or his ability to suspend) - without that public outcry, the inhumanity would still be U.S. policy. He deserves no praise for this.

I don't think recognizing that we've had a substantial decrease in illegal immigration as something in the plus column is the same as praising Trump or agreeing in sum with how we got it.

Leaving this also with rex.

I'll be speaking to him in a moment.

Surprising enough for you to vote for him in 2020?

"We" should avoid the zealot's mistake and the urge to over simplify and demonize the other, anna. That's what got us here to begin with.