The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[StanJ]

Jesus died at the hands of the Roman Empire, crucified as a criminal for being a danger to the state. The writing placed upon the cross--although differently written for each gospel--tells us what his offense was.

After he died, men and men only characterized his death as a blood offering for sin, but this idea was actually not totally worked out theologically until around the year 900 by the medieval Christian scholar Anselm of Canterbury.

The quotation in the gospels of "ransom" for payment is the Greek word lutron which referred to the money a friend of a prisoner would have to pay for the prisoner to be freed. It wasn't anything to do with the spilling of blood on an altar. Besides, Jesus forgave, healed and saved many long before he turned his face to Jerusalem for the final time.

++++++++++++++++++++++

It is truly sad that an exclusive focus on Jesus and a moral Christian life is apparently so disruptive and alarming for many on Theologyonline.

The victimization, the anger covering up shame and the immaturity of most folks on this website is truly astonishing to me.

Nevertheless, I will continue to stress the authentic parabolic teachings of Jesus as well as connecting myself and the world to the great moral epic of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.

I stand secure in my faith and nothing threatens me.

I suggest you read and study Hebrews. It was all worked out their for the Jews and has been since Luke wrote it.

FYI, INRI is an acronym meaning Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum, or "Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews." The actual inscription on the Cross was written in three languages, Latin, Greek and Aramaic. We know from Scripture that what was actually written was "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews".
Jesus was executed by the Romans at the request of the Jewish High Council.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Actually, I did nothing; didn't know anything about having to "accept Him".

I didn't decide to make a choice to receive Salvation, nor had anything to do with it.

Through the working of God's Power, He made me Spiritually Alive!

God has revealed to me through His Gospel, the Word of Truth,
that His Saving of me was strictly by His Grace Eph. 2:8-9; 2 Tim. 1:9!

How can any, a mere created thing, based on his own decision, dictate to God what He must do?

~~~~~

You still had to "HEAR" the Message and believe it. It didn't just
appear miraculously in your mind. ALL who get saved MUST first
"HEAR" the Message. Why are you and B57 any different?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I suggest you read and study Hebrews. It was all worked out their for the Jews and has been since Luke wrote it.

FYI, INRI is an acronym meaning Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum, or "Jesus the Nazarene, the King of the Jews." The actual inscription on the Cross was written in three languages, Latin, Greek and Aramaic. We know from Scripture that what was actually written was "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews".
Jesus was executed by the Romans at the request of the Jewish High Council.

Where does it say in Scripture that, Luke wrote Hebrews?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

After he died, men and men only characterized his death as a blood offering for sin, but this idea was actually not totally worked out theologically until around the year 900 by the medieval Christian scholar Anselm of Canterbury.

Further explain yourself here? What are you saying/implying?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Christ died for the sins of ALL mankind. However, only those who
hear the "Grace Message, (Paul's Gospel) and place ALL their faith
in Christ as their Savior, will be sealed/indwelt, receive the
righteousness of Christ, and baptized (not by water) into the "Body
of Christ." That is the one true Gospel for this, "Dispensation of
Grace."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

ALL unbelievers will stand before God and be judged by their works, (Revelation
20:12) and be cast into the "Lake of Fire" along with the devil and his angels.

 

[beloved57]

The all for whom Christ was given to be a ransom for !3

All those whom Christ was given as a ransom for 1 Tim 2:6

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

They shall be returned [unto God] or converted, Isa 35:10

10 And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

The promise is, they shall return and come to zion Heb 12:22-24

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

The idea is that the ransomed of the Lord shall be converted and returned from their captivity to sin, the world and the devil, which all men by nature are captive by, yet the ransomed [those Christ died for] they shall be returned or converted out of it.

All the elect originally in Adam were taken captive by the devil as indicated here 2 Tim 2:26

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Adam through his wife eve was taken captive by the devil at his will, notice the sacred narrative of Gen 3:1-8, but the ransomed of the Lord shall be recovered from this captivity in order to believe and submit to the Truth !

 

[beloved57]

We know that Christ did not die for all without exception !

We know that Christ did not die for all without exception because all without exception have not been cleansed from the guilt of their sins by the blood of Christ, which cleansing from guilt equates to Justification from them, which is the case for them Christ died for, because we read in Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself[His death alone] purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Before He sat down on the Right Hand of the Majesty on High [God the Father] He accomplished the purging of our sins !

The word purged katharismos means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

This refers to atonement, satisfaction, appeasement, as well as a cleansing from the Guilt of sin , and this by the death of Himself alone !

This purging from the guilt of sin also sanctified them Heb 10:10

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

That word sanctified means:

to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin See Heb 13:12

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people[all for whom He died are the people] with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Now to be free from the guilt of our sins doeth include to be free from the condemnation of them, to be without blame before Him, and yet we know that this cannot be the case with all mankind, even them that are condemned already Jn 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Understand something, not believing in the name of the Son is the consequence of being condemned already, because a condemned person is under the guilt of their sins against the Law which Christ did not die for !

 

[aikido7]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

The myths in the Bible point to absolute truth claims. Only by poetry, parable and metaphor can humans even approach the truth of the divine in everyday life.

 

[Nanja]

We know that Christ did not die for all without exception because all without exception have not been cleansed from the guilt of their sins by the blood of Christ, which cleansing from guilt equates to Justification from them, which is the case for them Christ died for, because we read in Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself[His death alone] purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Before He sat down on the Right Hand of the Majesty on High [God the Father] He accomplished the purging of our sins !

The word purged katharismos means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation.

This refers to atonement, satisfaction, appeasment, as well as a cleansing from the Guilt of sin , and this by the death of Himself alone !

This purging from the guilt of sin also sanctified them Heb 10:10

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

That word sanctified means:

to purify by expiation,free from the guilt of sin See Heb 13:12

Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people[all for whom He died are the people] with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Now to be free from the guilt of our sins doeth include to be free from the condemnation of them, to be without blame before Him, and yet we know that this cannot be the case with all mankind, even them that are condemned already Jn 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Understand something, not believing in the name of the Son is the consequence of being condemned already, because a condemned person is under the guilt of their sins against the Law which Christ did not die for !

Yes, we know it to be absolutely True according to the scriptures that Christ
did not die for all men without exception, but His Atonement was Limited.

It was God's Purpose to Sanctify, set apart only a remnant from all others,
a People for Himself in Christ, who was made their Covenant Head and Surety
before the foundation of the world Heb. 7:22.

Eph. 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all
spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him
before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So, God's Elect People were Sanctified, chosen to be holy and without blame before him in love
even before they were ever born into this world, and even before they ever believed in Him;
solely by Christ's Death alone, just as the Prophet Jeremiah was.

Jer. 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


But the condemned already John 3:18 portion of humanity are the non-elect, reprobate,
and will always remain in the state of being condemned, and being under the wrath of God Mat. 25:41; Jude 1:4
because He has not been propitiated / appeased for their sins.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Yes, we know it to be absolutely True according to the scriptures that Christ
did not die for all men without exception, but His Atonement was Limited.

It was God's Purpose to Sanctify, set apart only a remnant from all others,
a People for Himself in Christ, who was made their Covenant Head and Surety
before the foundation of the world Heb. 7:22.

Eph. 1:3-4
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all
spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him
before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

So, God's Elect People were Sanctified, chosen to be holy and without blame before him in love
even before they were ever born into this world, and even before they ever believed in Him;
solely by Christ's Death alone, just as the Prophet Jeremiah was.

Jer. 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


But the condemned already John 3:18 portion of humanity are the non-elect, reprobate,
and will always remain in the state of being condemned, and being under the wrath of God Mat. 25:41; Jude 1:4
because He has not been propitiated / appeased for their sins.

~~~~~

Amen to the Glory of God in Christ!

 

[beloved57]

Benefit of Christ death before believing!

One of the key reasons why it is a fact that Christ died only for some, the Sheep or Elect, it is because only some have the benefit from the death of Christ before believing, for example, those who had been reconciled to God by Christ death,while they were being enemies in the flesh Rom 5:10,while others who were being enemies in the flesh, are not only not reconciled to God, but under condemnation and wrath John 3:18,36 ! That means they have no benefit from Christ death as the reconciled did!

 

[beloved57]

Christ was manifested for the Elect of God only !

Peter wrote only to Gods Elect/Believers, those whom God had foreknown 1 Pet 1:20-21

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Notice carefully Vs 20, Christ was manifested in the last time FOR you, which are these whom Peter addresses here 1 Pet 1:1-2

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

All are not the foreknown of God we know that from Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

And here Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He is also writing to them only that had been begotten again by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This happened before they became believers, and is why they became believers !

Now again this is whom Christ was Manifested for Peter wrote 1 Pet 1:20 !

This election is made manifested or known by their Sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, which is Gospel obedience, or belief of the Truth as in 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Now thats specifically who Christ was manifested for; this same manifested one is written of here 1 Jn 3:5,8

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He was manifested to take away our sins [not for all, but only for them whose sins He took away] which would be the sins of the elect Rom 11:27,

Again 1 Jn 3:8 declares that He was manifested for the purpose of destroying the works of the devil

which one of those works is blinding the minds of the lost so that they believe not, he hides the Gospel from them 2 Cor 4:3-4, or he may snatch away the word that is sowed so they dont believe and be saved according to Lk 8:12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

But unto them Christ died for, Christ's Work has destroyed that work of the devil which we read of in Lk 8:12 and 2 Cor 4:3-4 !

 

[beloved57]

Christ was manifested for the Elect of God only !2


Folks Unbelief is a Work of the devil, it began as his work from the beginning with Eve, whe he caused her to disbelieve God Gen 3:1-6

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She obviously believed the Lie of the serpent over Gods command, when the serpent said to her "Ye shall not surely die"

She had already stated what God said Gen 3:3 so she believed the devil over God, which means Unbelief, Disobedience ! And man is imprsioned in that Unbelief Rom 11:32, unless Christ was manifested for them and took away their sins, in which case they must be set free from that prison of unbelief !

Now its a simple logical deduction from this, Unbelief is a work of the devil, and for one to remain in unbelief, they are under the power of the devil, and his power over them has not been defeated and they are operating from this spirit Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

But Glory to God that through Christ, if we be of the Elect, that power of the devil has been destroyed 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

And because this is True, the Elect become Believers , Obedience 1 Pet 1:2 because of Him that was manifested for them 1 Pet 1:20-21

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

If He was Manifested for Us to take away Our sins, we shall believe in the True God and Jesus Christ Jn 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

To Know Him aright is to believe in Him Isa 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

So if we teach that one Christ died for goes to hell in unbelief for their sins, we are teaching that Christ's Purpose for coming and being manifested was thwarted by the devil 1 Jn 3:5,8 ! And thats Blasphemy !

 

[beloved57]

Why He did not die for all without exception !

We know that Christ did not die for all without exception because all without exception were not by His Death Perfected forever Heb 10:10-14

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14 For by one offering[His Death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

If we are not being sanctified by His Death Vs 10, then He did not die or offer Himself for us !

The Being Perfected for ever doeth include our Justification from all sin, because based upon Christ's Offering, His Blood being shed for the New Covenant Matt 26:28 for the remission of sins, these sins and iniquties shall not be remembered anymore as Promised a few verses down after Heb 10:14 in Vs 17

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Now Remission of sins is from the blood of Christ Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins/Justification from sins.


And this remission of sins is not for all without exception, whereby their sins are remembered no more, simply because many shall die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The only reason why they die in their sins is because God has remembered them against them, like of these Rev 18:5

For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

So these could not have been those Christ died for and Perfected forever, and whose sins are no more remembered by God Heb 10:10-18 !

 

[beloved57]

Particular Redemption for Israel the Seed of Abraham

Many in false religion have been deceived into thinking that Christ came to die for all mankind without exception, or that He came to redeem all mankind without exception, yet these are delusions, for He came to redeem and die for a particular people without distinction of any particular nation or ethnicity, a Chosen People called Israel, or the Seed of Abraham,

Hear Ye the scripture Ps 25:22

Redeem Israel, O God, out of all his troubles.

Ps 130:8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

Gill writes of this verse:

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities. The Lord shall do it; in whom Israel is encouraged to hope; with whom grace and redemption were; or who was appointed to be the Redeemer. Redemption was then future, when these words were said, but certain, by the promise of God and agreement of Christ; and would be of the whole Israel, or elect of God; and that from "all" their iniquities, original and actual; sins, secret and open, of heart, lip, and life: and which is no small encouragement for Israel to hope in the Lord, for the sake of which this is added; as well as for the further illustration of the nature of redemption by Christ; which is complete, and now obtained, and is an eternal one.

Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

This was according to Promise, Israel is the Only People that God has Promised to Redeem, and to Save Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Paul writes that it was a Particular People that Christ came to Redeem here Gal 4:4-5

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

You see that word THEM ? That is a signal word to indicate a specific People, not all without exception, but to a particular THEM, and that them is Israel that was under the Law. Now were all men under this Law ? No, in fact scripture makes it clear that God showed His Law/Word to One specific People only, Israel Ps 147:19-20

19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.

His Law was for no other people , nation but Gods Israel

Again Paul writes of who exactly the Law was given to Rom 9:4

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

And its to these that Christ was made of a women for, made under the Law for, to redeem them that were under the Law that was given them !

 

[dialm]

Only those who are justified
Only justified by faith
Only faith to the chosen
And this is irresistible grace

 

[Nanja]

Many in false religion have been deceived into thinking that Christ came to die for all mankind without exception, or that He came to redeem all mankind without exception, yet these are delusions, for He came to redeem and die for a particular people without distinction of any particular nation or ethnicity, a Chosen People called Israel, or the Seed of Abraham,

Hear Ye the scripture Ps 25:22

Redeem Israel, O God, out of all his troubles.

Ps 130:8

And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

Gill writes of this verse:



Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

This was according to Promise, Israel is the Only People that God has Promised to Redeem, and to Save Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Paul writes that it was a Particular People that Christ came to Redeem here Gal 4:4-5

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

You see that word THEM ? That is a signal word to indicate a specific People, not all without exception, but to a particular THEM, and that them is Israel that was under the Law. Now were all men under this Law ? No, in fact scripture makes it clear that God showed His Law/Word to One specific People only, Israel Ps 147:19-20

19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.

His Law was for no other people , nation but Gods Israel

Again Paul writes of who exactly the Law was given to Rom 9:4

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

And its to these that Christ was made of a women for, made under the Law for, to redeem them that were under the Law that was given them !

TY for this very edifying post!
Thanking the Lord for you! ☺

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

TY for this very edifying post!
Thanking the Lord for you! ☺

~~~~~

Praise the Lord!

 

[Bright Raven]

John 3:16 New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.