The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Nanja]

That's NOT an answer, and are these your words or B57's?

Apparently not thoroughly enough to actually make an INFORMED opinion.

Like I said, NOT an INFORMED opinion.

Originally Posted by Nanja
So, my opinion is that you're not interested in truly learning what that verse is saying, but only in parroting your false freewill theology.

Confirmed!

~~~~~

 

[StanJ]

Confirmed!

That you're a B boy bunny? I agree.

 

[Ben Masada]

He died not for our sins only but also the sins of the whole world. I don't get whats so hard to understand.

The Prophets whom Jesus came to confirm down to the letter declare that no one can die for the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20). And I also don't get what's so hard to understand.

 

[beloved57]

Jesus Mission was never to come and save all mankind

The Lord Jesus Christs Mission was never to come and save all humanity or mankind, but only a remnant of it, which is seen when we consider Isa 49:3-8

3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.

5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.

8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Now lets start here at Vs 3, Tis Christ speaking, He is God's Servant Elect Israel also Isa 42:1, and in Isa 49:5 , as God's Servant His mission for God was to " to bring Jacob again to him"

In Vs 6 "be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob" and " to restore the preserved of Israel"

We have 3 Salvation statements here, first " to bring Jacob again to him"

He was to bring them back to God, yet not all men without exception, but particularly Jacob, or the Sons of Jacob Mal 3:6

6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

or Jacob them He Loved Mal 1:2

The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

See Rom 9:13 !

Then you have the seed of Jacob Ps 22:23

23 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

Isa 45:19

19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Since its the Seed of Jacob He is to bring back, its to that Seed its bidded to Seek the Lord ! In fact compare Isa 45:19 with Acts 17:27

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

They no doubt is the Seed of Jacob, not all mankind without exception !


Or the House of Jacob Isa 2:5

5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.

Isa 10:20

20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Isa 14:1

For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Lk 1:33

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

John Gill on this verse writes:

And he shall reign over the house of Jacob,.... Not over the Jews, the posterity of Jacob, in a literal sense; but over the whole Israel of God, consisting of Jews and Gentiles. For as his father David reigned over the Idumeans, Syrians, and others, as well as over the house of Judah and Israel, so this his son shall reign over both Jews and Gentiles: his kingdom shall be from one end of the earth to the other, even over all the elect of God; who in successive generations call themselves by the name of Jacob, and surname themselves by the name of Israel, of whatsoever nation they be; and this reign of his shall be
for ever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end; referring to Isaiah 9:7 see also Daniel 2:44 Daniel 7:14 he shall reign in the hearts of his people here unto the end of the world; and with his saints a thousand years in the new heavens and new earth; and with them to all eternity, in the ultimate glory.

 

[beloved57]

Calvinism has always seemed to me to be really unreliable. You don't know if you are the elect so there is no actual hope / guarantee in it when you think about it from a logical point of view.

"God only saves the elect" but, how do you know who the elect is? God just pulled straws and saved some people despite what they do.


To counter that I often think of verses like 1 John 2:2. It says "not ours only" when referring to the church of God. But includes everyone by saying "Whole world" note it says WHOLE WORLD which is a big statement in it self.

Next Acts 10:35 says "but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right." which seems to me to be a complete different belief from what calvinists teach too.

The apostles had way different beliefs than the calvinists do

Did you understand my previous post and points made?

 

[beloved57]

Jesus Mission was never to come and save all mankind 2

Next He is to raise them Up, the Tribes of Jacob/Israel Isa 49:6

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

The word raise here is the same word used in Isa 26:19

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Its the word quwm and means:

to rise, arise, stand, rise up, stand up

Also the word is used in Amos 9:11

In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Which i perceive is the same as the raising up of the tribes of Jacob, all of which was accomplished in the raising up of Christ from the dead Jn 2:19

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

 

[Nanja]

Next He is to raise them Up, the Tribes of Jacob/Israel Isa 49:6

6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

The word raise here is the same word used in Isa 26:19

19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Its the word quwm and means:

to rise, arise, stand, rise up, stand up

Also the word is used in Amos 9:11

In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Which i perceive is the same as the raising up of the tribes of Jacob, all of which was accomplished in the raisind up of Christ from the dead Jn 2:19

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

The Lord Jesus Christs Mission was never to come and save all humanity or mankind, but only a remnant of it, which is seen when we consider Isa 49:3-8.

So True!

This remnant consists of the tribes of Jacob; the "preserved of Israel" Is. 49:6, a particular Seed
who were Chosen in Union with Christ before the world began Eph. 1:3-11; 2 Tim. 1:9.
And these are a Spiritual Seed, the Children of Promise Rom. 9:8 from of all the nations of the earth.

Psalm 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun:
and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.


John Gill

And he shall reign over the house of Jacob,.... Not over the Jews, the posterity of Jacob, in a literal sense; but over the whole Israel of God, consisting of Jews and Gentiles. For as his father David reigned over the Idumeans, Syrians, and others, as well as over the house of Judah and Israel, so this his son shall reign over both Jews and Gentiles: his kingdom shall be from one end of the earth to the other, even over all the elect of God; who in successive generations call themselves by the name of Jacob, and surname themselves by the name of Israel, of whatsoever nation they be; and this reign of his shall be
for ever, and of his kingdom there shall be no end; referring to Isaiah 9:7 see also Daniel 2:44 Daniel 7:14 he shall reign in the hearts of his people here unto the end of the world; and with his saints a thousand years in the new heavens and new earth; and with them to all eternity, in the ultimate glory.

Salvation is Limited. It was Promised to only a Particular People, Israel Is. 45:17,
which comprises all the Election of Grace Chosen in Christ before the world began.

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

So True!

This remnant consists of the tribes of Jacob; the "preserved of Israel" Is. 49:6, a particular Seed
who were Chosen in Union with Christ before the world began Eph. 1:3-11; 2 Tim. 1:9.
And these are a Spiritual Seed, the Children of Promise Rom. 9:8 from of all the nations of the earth.

Psalm 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun:
and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.


John Gill



Salvation is Limited. It was Promised to only a Particular People, Israel Is. 45:17,
which comprises all the Election of Grace Chosen in Christ before the world began.

~~~~~

God has blessed you to have a good understanding ! Ps 111:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

 

[StanJ]

Did you understand my previous post and points made?

NOBODY understands you or your posts B57, because they make NO sense.

 

[Nanja]

God has blessed you to have a good understanding ! Ps 111:10

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Amen, yes He has, Brother. I believe that understanding of His Word is one of the "all things",
Spiritual Blessings, applied to us who are in Union with Him, by the Spirit Rom. 8:32; 2 Pet. 1:3.

We, being Chosen in Christ our Covenant Head, blameless before Him in Love Eph. 1:4,
are made complete in Him Col. 2:10 by His Life and Death for us. He has completed all
the requirements necessary to fulfill God's Perfect Law and Justice on our behalf,
and we know that included His keeping the commandments perfectly. His Righteousness has been
charged/ imputed to us Rom. 5:19 and so therefore we keep His commandments blamelessly!

We will Praise our God and Saviour for all eternity!


Thanking God for you, and all your help in the scriptures! ☺

~~~~~

 

[beloved57]

Amen, yes He has, Brother. I believe that understanding of His Word is one of the "all things",
Spiritual Blessings, applied to us who are in Union with Him, by the Spirit Rom. 8:32; 2 Pet. 1:3.

We, being Chosen in Christ our Covenant Head, blameless before Him in Love Eph. 1:4,
are made complete in Him Col. 2:10 by His Life and Death for us. He has completed all
the requirements necessary to fulfill God's Perfect Law and Justice on our behalf,
and we know that included His keeping the commandments perfectly. His Righteousness has been
charged/ imputed to us Rom. 5:19 and so therefore we keep His commandments blamelessly!

We will Praise our God and Saviour for all eternity!


Thanking God for you, and all your help in the scriptures! ☺

~~~~~

Amen, we are the ones who do His Commandments because He did them for us!

 

[Bright Raven]

Amen, we are the ones who do His Commandments because He did them for us!

Whose we? Got a mouse in your pocket?

 

[StanJ]

Whose we? Got a mouse in your pocket?

I think they're dating.

 

[Nanja]

Amen, we are the ones who do His Commandments because He did them for us!

Exactly!

Praise His Name!

~~~~~

 

[StanJ]

Exactly!

Praise His Name!

~~~~~

 

[Nanja]

Mat. 5:10-12

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(v.11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil
against you falsely, for my sake. (v.12) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven:
for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

~~~~~

 

[StanJ]

Mat. 5:10-12

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(v.11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
(v.12) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

~~~~~

In psychology a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term victim complex, desires the feeling of being a martyr for his/her own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it either feeds a psychological need, or a desire to avoid responsibility.

 

[aikido7]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

The scripture however does say that He died for His Sheep or His Church as per Jn 10:11,15

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

His People Isa 53:8

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. cp Matt 1:21

Now, are all without exception His Sheep ? No

Are all without exception His Church ? No

Are all without exception His People ? No

For surely the seed of the serpent Gen 3:15 cannot be of His Sheep, His Church, or His People.

So why does the religous world proclaim that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, when they have no scripture proof ? Because it is a Myth.

Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilate and died. That fact is probably the most historically-testified to event in Christian history.

Some folks saw and heard Jesus and said "This guy is God. Let's follow him."

Others saw him as another charismatic prophet and said "This is boring, I'm outta here."

Others saw him as a threat and said "Let's kill him."

So everyone does not believe Jesus "died for them."

 

[beloved57]

Mat. 5:10-12

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
(v.11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil
against you falsely, for my sake. (v.12) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven:
for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

~~~~~

Amen!

 

[dialm]

One of the themes in the Gospel accounts is that the children of Isreal thought they had a legal right to salvation. This belief was based on birth.

People today tend to think the same way. That if they have a spiritual expirience, ('new birth') this is there legal right to salvation.