The Most Dangerous Teaching

[Interplanner]

That's all wonderful news.... but NOWHERE in there does it say that Christ died for the sins of the world ON THE CROSS.

NOWHERE there do you seen them preaching "nothing but Christ and Him crucified".

You see a continuation of God's work to and through Israel.

The preaching of GRACE is conspicuously missing from Act 1-8 and YET that is the one thing that Paul screams all of the time.

What was it that "pricked them in the heart"? Was it God's grace? Was it the forgiveness of their sin?

NO, it was that they had murdered their Messiah.


He did not establish a "new law", Jesus told THEM (the twelve minus one) to teach ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you and ONE of those things was the LAW of MOSES (Matt 23:1-3).


I don't have to try to prove that. Instead you need to prove that they disobeyed the direct command of the LORD Jesus Christ to teach ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you.


Go ahead and continue to be an Israelite under the law if you'd like.


Progressive revelation.... get to understand it.

RD is full of artificial categories of course. He must have missed the intro to Acts in Lk 24! Way to go RD! Forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice is
Forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice is
Forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice!..
except to these pesky literalist D'ists and futurists where everything is as complicated as possible so they can denigrate and insult and blast you for your 'ignorance' (of D'ism).

 

[Interplanner]

The most dangerous doctrine today is the neo-Marxism that asserts the race/state where the NT does not.

 

[Right Divider]

RD is full of artificial categories of course. He must have missed the intro to Acts in Lk 24! Way to go RD!

Another Bulverite... Good job!

Forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice is
Forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice is
Forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice!..
except to these pesky literalist D'ists and futurists where everything is as complicated as possible so they can denigrate and insult and blast you for your 'ignorance' (of D'ism).

You are extremely ignorant and have proven it many, many times.

 

[turbosixx]

I'm saying that you're completely blind in regards to Paul's calling.

If the twelve were sent to all the world, why the need for another guy?

No need at all if it's "all just the same".

I don't see Paul's calling bringing anything new. I don't see why not Paul. He was very zealous to do God's work, but he was wrong so God set him straight. After his calling he worked with the 12 and traveled the world converting Christians the same way they did. It can't be different if it's the same.

We see Paul baptize converts in the name of Jesus in Acts 19 on his last journey. When did converting Christians without baptizing them in the name of Jesus change?[/QUOTE]

You're confused about the "converts".

Not sure what you mean here.

P.S. One of the jobs that Paul was given by God was to complete the Word of God.... what was missing?

I don't see anything missing. The way I understand it, Paul's ministry complements the others not contradicts. When does the bible tell us that Jew and Gentile became one new man? Is/was Christ divided?

 

[turbosixx]

Ultimately sin was dealt with at the cross, but God did NOT reveal that at THAT time.

Sure it was. Be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Same went for Paul, he had to was away his sins in baptism.
Acts 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

If it's the same it's not different.

 

[Interplanner]

Another Bulverite... Good job!


You are extremely ignorant and have proven it many, many times.

Please address the text (Lk 24) not a label no one cares about.

Please define the "ignorance" not a label. You are ignorant of what is in early Acts, so don't dare try to use those materials.

 

[Right Divider]

I don't see Paul's calling bringing anything new.

Blindness.

I don't see why not Paul.

Total copout... If God already sent TWELVE apostles to ALL THE WORLD.... why is there a need for ONE more?

He was very zealous to do God's work, but he was wrong so God set him straight. After his calling he worked with the 12 and traveled the world converting Christians the same way they did. It can't be different if it's the same.

Gal 2:6-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:6) But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me: (2:7) But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter; (2:8) (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles (2:9) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
​

So... AGAIN... the TWELVE were sent to ALL THE WORLD, but now agreed NOT to go to ALL THE WORLD? Were they disobedience to the LORD's command in Matthew 28?

You've got some explaining to do about this.

They added NOTHING to Paul, but CONTRARIWISE (that means the opposite) Paul added something to them.

We see Paul baptize converts in the name of Jesus in Acts 19 on his last journey. When did converting Christians without baptizing them in the name of Jesus change?

[/quote]
Paul did NOT re-baptize them. You are misunderstanding the text.

Not sure what you mean here.

They were already believers and did not need to be "converted".

I don't see anything missing.

Of course you don't.... blindness prevents you from understanding. Paul says that something was missing.

Col 1:25-29 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; (1:26) [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: (1:27) To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: (1:28) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (1:29) Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
​

You simply refuse to understand Paul's preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, which the twelve did not know.

The way I understand it, Paul's ministry complements the others not contradicts. When does the bible tell us that Jew and Gentile became one new man? Is/was Christ divided?

You are referring to the dispensation of the grace of God, which was given to Paul.

Paul's ministry does not contradict anything, but goes beyond what the others were given.

 

[turbosixx]

You are referring to the dispensation of the grace of God, which was given to Paul.

12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”

You follow Paul.

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[Right Divider]

Please address the text (Lk 24) not a label no one cares about.

Pick a few verses CHAPTER BLASTER.

Please define the "ignorance" not a label. You are ignorant of what is in early Acts, so don't dare try to use those materials.

You are ignorant of the CONTINUATION of the program of prophesy that was part of Israel's earthly calling.

Acts 1-8 are full of that and NOT the heathen gentiles being saved by grace without works apart from Israel and her covenant promises.

It was not until Israel's complete rejection of the King and the kingdom that God raised up Paul.

The kingdom is still to come. The new Jerusalem has twelve gates... guess who's names are on them. The new Jerusalem has twelve foundations.... guess whose names are there.

 

[Right Divider]

Sure it was. Be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Same went for Paul, he had to was away his sins in baptism.
Acts 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

If it's the same it's not different.

Once AGAIN, this was all BEFORE the revelation of the mystery.

You are deaf and blind.

 

[turbosixx]

Once AGAIN, this was all BEFORE the revelation of the mystery.

You are deaf and blind.

Just trying to challenge your thinking. If your right then we are both saved, if I'm right your lost and I'm saved.

 

[Right Divider]

12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”

You follow Paul.

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

1Cor 1:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. ​

1Cor 11:1 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:1) Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.
​

You have a fixation on water ceremonies.

You follow the circumcision apostles.

 

[turbosixx]

1Cor 1:17 (AKJV/PCE)​

(1:17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. ​

You're taking this verse out of context. When Paul preached the gospel to the Corinthians, many believed but he baptized few. That's what that verse means. He's sent to preach but anyone can do the baptizing.

Here is what it looks like when something isn't part of the gospel.
1 Cor. 7:19 For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.

You have a fixation on water ceremonies.

You follow the circumcision apostles.

And Paul because he also baptized believers.
Eph. 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
Apostles, plural.

I don't see contradiction but corroboration.

 

[Right Divider]

Just trying to challenge your thinking. If your right then we are both saved, if I'm right your lost and I'm saved.

I know that I am saved because I understand the gospel of my salvation. It is clear and unambiguous and does not require any ceremonies whatsoever.

I'm trying to challenge your thinking. Do you ever ask yourself why Paul NEVER once commands anyone to be water baptized?

Thirteen epistles and NOT ONE time does Paul ever command ANYONE to be water baptized.

If it were they way that you think that it is, that would be a glaring dereliction of duty on Paul's part!

 

[Right Divider]

You're taking this verse out of context. When Paul preached the gospel to the Corinthians, many believed but he baptized few. That's what that verse means. He's sent to preach but anyone can do the baptizing.

Here is what it looks like when something isn't part of the gospel.
1 Cor. 7:19 For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.

The scripture is clear about what Paul said, it is you what is having problems with the context.

And Paul because he also baptized believers.
Eph. 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
Apostles, plural.

I don't see contradiction but corroboration.

Paul is the one that revealed many things to other apostles. You assume what you want about "his holy apostles". There are many apostles besides the TWELVE and the ONE.

Barnabas was an apostle too.

Acts 14:14 (AKJV/PCE)​

(14:14) [Which] when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard [of], they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

​

 

[turbosixx]

I know that I have saved because I understand the gospel of my salvation. It is clear and unambiguous and does not require any ceremonies whatsoever.

I'm trying to challenge your thinking. Do you ever ask yourself why Paul NEVER once commands anyone to be water baptized?

Thirteen epistles and NOT ONE time does Paul ever command ANYONE to be water baptized.

If it were they way that you think that it is, that would be a glaring dereliction of duty on Paul's part!

I suggest this is a mistaken way of looking at it. Only once did anyone command baptism and it was a special situation.

You are challenging my thinking but I see glaring holes in yours.

You say Paul was not sent to baptize but yet on all of his journeys that is exactly what he did.
You divide Christ but Paul criticizes the Corinthians for it.
You say the 12 proclaimed keeping the law after the DBR but there is zero evidence of it.
And so on.

 

[turbosixx]

The scripture is clear about what Paul said, it is you what is having problems with the context.

Then please explain it within the context and in a way that it harmonizes with what we see when he actually converted those he is addressing.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Just trying to challenge your thinking. If your right then we are both saved, if I'm right your lost and I'm saved.

There's another possibility you haven't entertained and that is, if you're NOT a member of the "Body of Christ" according to "Paul's Gospel" (given to him by the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ) then, if you die in that condition, you're headed for Judgment and the "Lake of Fire."

 

[turbosixx]

There's another possibility you haven't entertained and that is, if you're NOT a member of the "Body of Christ" according to "Paul's Gospel" (given to him by the Ascended Lord Jesus Christ) then, if you die in that condition, you're headed for Judgment and the "Lake of Fire."

What does it take to be a member?

 

[Right Divider]

I suggest this is a mistaken way of looking at it. Only once did anyone command baptism and it was a special situation.

Please elaborate.Quote scripture.

Matt 28:19 (AKJV/PCE)​

(28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: ​

That looks like a command.

You are challenging my thinking but I see glaring holes in yours.

Of course you do.

You say Paul was not sent to baptize but yet on all of his journeys that is exactly what he did.

PAUL says that he was sent "not to baptize, BUT to preach the gospel".... it's in Bible and it should tell you something.

You divide Christ but Paul criticizes the Corinthians for it.

FALSE ACCUSATION.... I simply believe the divisions that God has put in His plans.

You say the 12 proclaimed keeping the law after the DBR but there is zero evidence of it.
And so on.

So, once again, you think that the 12 directly disobey this command from the risen LORD.

Matt 28:20 (AKJV/PCE)​

(28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. ​

This is ONE of the ALL THINGS:

Matt 23:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(23:1) Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (23:2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (23:3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. ​

The "therefore" is referring to their sitting in Moses' seat (i.e., the giver of the law to Israel).

YOU have the 12 being IMMEDIATELY disobedient to their Lord.