The Most Dangerous Teaching

turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
No, the Jews believed in the Lord God, but didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah (Lord).

The gentiles didn't believe in God at all. That's why John's baptism of repentance was for Israel, and not the gentiles.
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I was thinking back earlier in Romans where Paul lays out why there is no distinction.

3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.,
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
I only know what the bible tells us. It tells us the point his sins were forgiven.
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No, it tells us what the Jewish teacher, Ananias, claimed....which was a SIGN his sins would be washed away by water (a temporary cleansing). Ananias had no idea what the Risen Lord had revealed to Paul or would reveal to him as the days went on. He only knew what was prescribed under the law, as part of their purification rites and rituals for service under the law.

Lev. 8:5-6 And Moses said unto the congregation, This is the thing which the Lord commanded to be done. And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.​

Dan says it's not water at all, and he could very well be correct, since it's Paul who tells us that we are cleansed with the washing of water BY THE WORD. That would be hearing the Word of God.

Ephesians 5:25-26
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,​
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
I was thinking back earlier in Romans where Paul lays out why there is no distinction.

3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also 30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.,
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Only in the respect of all men being sinners.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
No, it tells us what the Jewish teacher, Ananias, claimed....which was a SIGN his sins would be washed away by water (a temporary cleansing). Ananias had no idea what the Risen Lord had revealed to Paul or would reveal to him as the days went on. He only knew what was prescribed under the law, as part of their purification rites and rituals for service under the law.

Lev. 8:5-6 And Moses said unto the congregation, This is the thing which the Lord commanded to be done. And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.​

Dan says it's not water at all, and he could very well be correct, since it's Paul who tells us that we are cleansed with the washing of water BY THE WORD. That would be hearing the Word of God.

Ephesians 5:25-26
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,​
Click to expand...
Baptism in the name of Jesus has ZERO to do with the law, it is not part of the law. The law was a shadow.

Dan is very much wrong. He is taking one single verse and using it to changing the meaning of baptism everywhere except were water is mentioned because he can't refute that.

Jesus said make Christians of ALL nations by baptizing them in his name and during the same conversation he says "he that believes and is baptized will be saved". It makes sense because Paul believed yet still had his sins until he arose and was baptized. It not only includes Israel but everyone, all nations/all creation.

We also see Paul baptizing believers just as Jesus instructed. Here we see many Corinthians being baptized including Crispus.
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.

We know that Paul personally baptized Crispus.
1 Cor. 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

Now if Paul was given the gospel of "grace" and baptism isn't part of it, why would Paul baptize anyone?? There is zero reason to do so if it isn't part of the gospel. Paul baptizing Crispus disproves "all" you have to do is believe and supports making Christians by baptizing them in Jesus' name. On his third journey, we still see him baptizing in the name of Jesus. He never stopped.

I suggest to you 1 Cor. 1:17 is once again taken out of context and used to promote a falsehood.

I don't disagree with washing of water by the word. As we saw in Romans, the word is in our mouth and if we confess with the mouth, we are saved. If we believe the word we will get baptized.
 
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turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
Put it up here. Quote it.
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In Acts 9 we can see during Paul's conversion that the last thing he did was get baptized.
9:18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.

When he tells of his conversion in Acts 22, we see that after he had been blinded, fasting and praying for three days and receiving his sight, we see Ananias telling him he needs to wash away his sins. He still had his sins until he washed them away in baptism.
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

I know, it doesn't mean what it "appears" to say. You say Ananias is a Jew, yes all early converts were Jews. They were the ones looking for and were to announce the arrival of the Messiah. He is obviously a Christian because he recognizes Jesus as Lord and Jesus calls on him. Not to convert him but to have him convert Paul.

I choose to believe what it says because it's in harmony with what Jesus instructed and how we see Paul making Christians.

In Acts 19 after Paul had traveled the world twice establishing churches and making Christians, we see he will not give these men spiritual gifts until he baptizes them in the name of Jesus even though they were already believers.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
Only in the respect of all men being sinners.
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I suggest there is no other distinction. After the DBR, we are to no longer recognize anyone according to the flesh. What separated Jew and Gentile was removed at the cross.
Eph. 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Rom. 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
glorydaz said:
No, it tells us what the Jewish teacher, Ananias, claimed....which was a SIGN his sins would be washed away by water (a temporary cleansing). Ananias had no idea what the Risen Lord had revealed to Paul or would reveal to him as the days went on. He only knew what was prescribed under the law, as part of their purification rites and rituals for service under the law.

Lev. 8:5-6 And Moses said unto the congregation, This is the thing which the Lord commanded to be done. And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.​

Dan says it's not water at all, and he could very well be correct, since it's Paul who tells us that we are cleansed with the washing of water BY THE WORD. That would be hearing the Word of God.

Ephesians 5:25-26
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,​
Click to expand...

Excellent post
 
andyc

andyc

New member
turbosixx said:
I suggest there is no other distinction. After the DBR, we are to no longer recognize anyone according to the flesh. What separated Jew and Gentile was removed at the cross.
Eph. 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

Rom. 7:4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
Click to expand...

Dispensationalists hate this.

They want the Jews to remain in the flesh because it suits their own carnal gospel.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
In Acts 9 we can see during Paul's conversion that the last thing he did was get baptized.
9:18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 19 and taking food, he was strengthened.

When he tells of his conversion in Acts 22, we see that after he had been blinded, fasting and praying for three days and receiving his sight, we see Ananias telling him he needs to wash away his sins. He still had his sins until he washed them away in baptism.
And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’

I know, it doesn't mean what it "appears" to say. You say Ananias is a Jew, yes all early converts were Jews. They were the ones looking for and were to announce the arrival of the Messiah. He is obviously a Christian because he recognizes Jesus as Lord and Jesus calls on him. Not to convert him but to have him convert Paul.

I choose to believe what it says because it's in harmony with what Jesus instructed and how we see Paul making Christians.

In Acts 19 after Paul had traveled the world twice establishing churches and making Christians, we see he will not give these men spiritual gifts until he baptizes them in the name of Jesus even though they were already believers.
Click to expand...

You are forced to read water baptism into all those verses in spite of the fact that John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for the Jews. It was the JEWS who required a sign. But Paul says he kept back nothing that was profitable when he preached repentance TOWARD GOD and faith TOWARD our Lord Jesus Christ. He did not preach baptism because the ONE baptism that saves is the one performed by the Holy Spirit upon those who believe. Only God can see into the heart of man. No dunker can see faith, and no dunker can say sins are forgiven.

Acts. 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, 21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. ​

Yet Paul was sent to the Gentiles. And what does he say here in front of Agrippa....you don't see baptism mentioned at all. Why is that? We see here Paul's message of "turn to God" for forgiveness of sins....and sanctification by FAITH.

Acts. 26:15-17 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; 17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,​

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.​

Only a saved man would have this response to his meeting on the road to Damascus.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:​

That is the Gospel of Grace....salvation by grace through faith. Adding any ritual performed by man is NOT Paul's Gospel of Salvation....it is not the ONE BAPTISM performed by the Holy Spirit.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
Now if Paul was given the gospel of "grace" and baptism isn't part of it, why would Paul baptize anyone?? There is zero reason to do so if it isn't part of the gospel. Paul baptizing Crispus disproves "all" you have to do is believe and supports making Christians by baptizing them in Jesus' name. On his third journey, we still see him baptizing in the name of Jesus. He never stopped.
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Because the Jews required a sign. He never preached water baptism as a part of his Gospel. I don't know why you keep saying that. The ONLY baptism that saves is the baptism BY the HOLY SPIRIT. And Paul certainly did preach that. He never takes credit for what is performed by the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​


I don't disagree with washing of water by the word. As we saw in Romans, the word is in our mouth and if we confess with the mouth, we are saved. If we believe the word we will get baptized.
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No, that is not "washing by the word"......We are not cleaned/washed by the words we speak or what we confess. The word is the word of God...the Gospel being preached.

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.​
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
andyc said:
Dispensationalists hate this.

They want the Jews to remain in the flesh because it suits their own carnal gospel.
Click to expand...

I'm a dispensationalist, but I draw the line where God does not man. God said the dividing wall was broken down in Jesus' flesh(cross).
 
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