turbosixx
New member
That's not what bible says.
The Most Dangerous Teaching
- Thread starter vegascowboy
- Start date
That's not what bible says.
turbosixx
New member
So they needed to confess Him?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Belief in the death burial and resurrection. He believed that right there on the road to Damascus, and he certainly trusted Him if he was already asking what he should do.
Prove otherwise, if you can.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No. They needed to trust.
turbosixx
New member
Is that where you stop when reading about his conversion?
turbosixx
New member
Is that why you didn't include this part of Romans?
10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
glorydaz
Well-known member
To confess means to acknowledge. To acknowledge is to believe in your heart (trust).
If a person has no tongue is he out of luck?
turbosixx
New member
My bible says confess with the mouth.
glorydaz
Well-known member
turbosixx
New member
I would suggest overturning what Paul plainly says using a highly improbable/rare scenario and applying it to everyone would not be a wise decision, but you are free to choose.
glorydaz
Well-known member
It isn't a question of overturning Paul, but of knowing what Paul was referring to....which is making it clear that this LORD is the Lord God of the OT. That is what the Jews had to "confess". And Paul hearkens back to the OT to make it clear.
Deut. 30:11-14 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
turbosixx
New member
That is in the context of Romans.
This is the problem I have with mad. For one reason or another, what the bible plainly says is explained away even though there are other verses that support what it plainly says.
10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I knew this before I'd ever heard of MAD, so stop with that too oft repeated claim. Remember what I'd just posted from Deut. 30? Try actually reading for context. Try actually looking at the OT verses that Paul takes this from. Read what is written. He didn't do this for the heck of it. He also says there is no difference between Jew and Greek. Why does he say this while quoting from the law? I'll tell you....so you'd LOOK.
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.Notice......Whosoever shall CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved. Do you have to speak out loud to call upon the Lord? Do you call aloud when you call out to the Lord?
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This right here is why believers have been delivered from the law.
turbosixx
New member
I knew this before I'd ever heard of MAD, so stop with that too oft repeated claim. Remember what I'd just posted from Deut. 30? Try actually reading for context. Try actually looking at the OT verses that Paul takes this from. Read what is written. He didn't do this for the heck of it. He also says there is no difference between Jew and Greek. Why does he say this while quoting from the law? I'll tell you....so you'd LOOK.
Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Notice......Whosoever shall CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved. Do you have to speak out loud to call upon the Lord? Do you call aloud when you call out to the Lord?
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
This right here is why believers have been delivered from the law.
I would suggest to you that your version doesn't agree with Paul's conversion.
turbosixx
New member
They both need the same thing.
glorydaz
Well-known member
turbosixx
New member
To understand what it means to call upon the name of the Lord I look to scripture. God has seen fit to give us around 12 examples of people who have gone from being lost to being added. How did they call on the name of the Lord?
turbosixx
New member
I only know what the bible tells us. It tells us the point his sins were forgiven.
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, the Jews believed in the Lord God, but didn't accept Jesus as their Messiah (Lord).
The gentiles didn't believe in God at all. That's why John's baptism of repentance was for Israel, and not the gentiles.
That's why this verse makes sense.
Ephesians 2 KJV - And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.