The long nightmare has just begun: Inauguration of a fraud.

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Although opposed, I have followed the homosexual issue; however the 'transgender mandate' where did it come from and why so fast?

Today, women have more freedoms to choose their life plans, yet they may have to, someday, face the military draft. I am glad I did no have to deal with this much change.:nono:

The strange thing for me is, I was able to see why some girls' envoy the freedom boys had, but I simply do not understand boys wanted to wear dresses, or other feminine attire. What is so great about that :idunno:
 
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ClimateSanity

New member
So they missed on the turnout. Okay. How does that invalidate people telling pollsters how they feel about the President's performance again?

To the rational, there's a difference between an estimate of how people will turn out and vote and taking a survey of how they actually feel about an issue. The former is a lot more complicated and necessarily speculative.



I'm sure that matters to someone, but as a voter who didn't support her, not so much. :nono:
What do surveys tell us about how people feel about an issue? Very little. They need to take the people they have polled and question them regarding their knowledge of the issues. That would be much more informative. As it stands, most people feel the same as the narratives do that the MSM push in their face everyday.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
1) Not all Republicans voted for Trump, and many simply to stop the Democratic nominee. I suppose that is actually in your favor, but not exactly giving the story regarding Trump's approval rating. For instance, would you as a Moderate, at least approve that he is accomplishing what he said he'd do?
I don't know how to quantify that meaningfully. Some things he's done. Some he hasn't. Some he's completely turned around on. How do you weight and determine the value of one against the other? Objectively I doubt it can be done. Which leaves us with...

2) To me, he is doing it more so than quite a few other presidents these past couple of decades but the Gallop poll didn't ask that. The poll is more concerned about something subjective called 'approval' than if he is actually doing the job.
Which is essentially any position on his performance, in light of my above. So it's not a determination, objectively speaking, but it tells you how people feel about what he's done, their perception. And it's relevant comparatively speaking with the preceding office holders and the public feeling on their efficacy.

3) Think about it in context as well: The country has been embracing freedom of expression and minority.
My friends on the Democratic side of it would say Trump has taken minority empowerment to an unfortunate height...I think what we've done, say since the 60s, is become a freer society. There are consequences to that, for good and ill, as with right itself.

Trump has repealed the transgender mandate etc. His disapproval rate then, carries a few more concerns than just whether we like or dislike him. You know what would be interesting? A TOL poll of his job approval rating just to see if it'd make a difference. There are enough liberals and moderates that perhaps it'd give a fair indication -Lon
:think: Hard to say. I think there's such a relatively small number of active posters (though a lot of readers/guests to be had) that I suspect it's largely skewed as far as representation goes. I was looking at the end numbers the other day and noted the top posters. I suppose that means unpruned post total. The top ten: Tam, GM, Knight, PJ, GT, LH, Chrys, me, doser, and musterion. So that would be one moderate and nine right wingers to one degree or another. No change through the top 20, except Granite remains in that last spot. I don't remember what he was, but he's not around any longer now at any rate. I suspect you have a handful of the left, a couple of moderates and the vast majority who remain active are by degrees to the right and hard right.
 
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ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... it tells you how people feel about what he's done ....


oh, i suspect there's plenty more at play that just that


i suspect that many true moderates are giving him the benefit of the doubt now that the left and the media have been so clearly revealed as a pack of retarded, biased whiners


those of us on the right have known this for years, of course
 
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Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Something doesn't jive. How can job approval be so low and yet consumer confidence be so high?

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/98523676/
I think it goes more to gaffs than anything else. Trump has had a number of black eyes and a few bitter defeats politically, changed his mind on some promises that were important to a few. Add it all up and people can be displeased with him and still like the way the economy appears to be moving.


What do surveys tell us about how people feel about an issue? Very little.
It tells us how they feel, which is all it's meant to indicate.

They need to take the people they have polled and question them regarding their knowledge of the issues.
I'd love to see that.

That would be much more informative. As it stands, most people feel the same as the narratives do that the MSM push in their face everyday.
Except the single most dominant narrative in media is Fox and that's a water boy for the right on par with MSNBC's historical catering to the left.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
oh, i suspect there's plenty more at play that just that
That's vague enough.

i suspect that many true moderates are giving him the benefit of the doubt now that the left and the media have been so clearly revealed as a pack of retarded, biased whiners
No reason to really believe that given the numbers and the trouble Trump has had in getting Republican moderates to throw their support behind him.

those of us on the right have known this for years, of course
That's because the hard right is hip deep in confirmation bias and always has been. The most interesting thing of late has been the left's similar tilt and the near complete deafness of either to the other.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
how many here remember the poll the Nobel committee gave its members when they decided to "approve" of bammy and award him the NPP?


and that approval rating was based on his having done absolutely nothing :chuckle:
 

Lon

Well-known member
I don't know how to quantify that meaningfully. Some things he's done. Some he hasn't. Some he's completely turned around on. How do you weight and determine the value of one against the other? Objectively I doubt it can be done. Which leaves us with...
This takes us back a year, but it does tell a story from Barna Group (about as reputable as Gallup, with Christian concern). You'd wonder that Trump has any approval at all by such numbers. I think OkD is correct, we'd likely see no good numbers no matter who was voted in this election.

Is it me, or is Trump's approval rate actually 40% from Gallup?

Which is right, or did I miss something? :think:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
This takes us back a year, but it does tell a story from Barna Group (about as reputable as Gallup, with Christian concern). You'd wonder that Trump has any approval at all by such numbers. I think OkD is correct, we'd likely see no good numbers no matter who was voted in this election.

Is it me, or is Trump's approval rate actually 40% from Gallup?

Which is right, or did I miss something? :think:
Not following, which is right in comparison to what? All the polling on the page you linked to seems about the same.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Why would anyone pay attention to polls anymore after the election failure?


We’ve heard a lot from President Trump, in the past week or so, about securing our borders — the southern one from migrant Mexicans, the northern from stealthy Canadian dairy farmers — and about all the taxes he wants to lower. There’s a reason for this.

The TV-obsessed president knows that he will be endlessly judged by a report-card-obsessed media for his performance during these first 100 days. And as it happens, trade, taxes and immigration are the notable areas where Trump can claim to have demonstrated some ideological consistency, if not a ton of movement.

In most other aspects, the nascent Trump presidency is very much a work in progress, or perhaps a work in regress from the rhetoric of his campaign.

The candidate who skewered China as a currency manipulator is now the president who declared that China is not a currency manipulator. The candidate critical of intervention in Syria and of suspicion toward Russia has now launched missiles into Syria and blamed the Russians for it.

He no longer thinks that NATO or the Export-Import Bank is unnecessary. He no longer cares whether President Obama’s health care law is entirely or even mostly repealed, as long as he can pass something that doesn’t send the whole system cratering.

As I wrote a few weeks ago, this is the actual story of these first 100 days — the story of a showman stunned by his own victory and trying to figure out whom he should listen to and how he wants to govern.

Which leads me to what I think are some uncomfortable questions for Trump’s critics, particularly in my own industry. If Trump turns out to be serious about growing into the job, do we have the capacity to let him? Or, as I’ve heard from a lot of angry readers over the past few months, are we already invested in watching him fail?

To be clear, whatever presuppositions Trump now faces among most of the reporters who cover him — and among the solid majority of voters who disapprove of his job performance — are of his own making. It’s hard to suddenly start granting the benefit of the doubt to someone who so brazenly lies about things both mundane and consequential.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/willing-let-trump-evolve-090022380.html





many are invested in seeing him fail :idunno:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
"I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters." Trump

Fake News

Wouldn't that be great. I could wake up tomorrow and find out the media lied and we had another president...maybe not. Anyway, I guess that just goes to underscore the power and danger of extremism.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
If I were to wake up and find Hillary was the President, I would deem it a horrendous Nightmare and try my best to wake up immediately. Yikes!!
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
I was glad to see that Franklyn Graham (Billy Graham's Son) agreed with me that it was God's Will that President Trump was placed into office.
 

exminister

Well-known member

We’ve heard a lot from President Trump, in the past week or so, about securing our borders — the southern one from migrant Mexicans, the northern from stealthy Canadian dairy farmers — and about all the taxes he wants to lower. There’s a reason for this.

The TV-obsessed president knows that he will be endlessly judged by a report-card-obsessed media for his performance during these first 100 days. And as it happens, trade, taxes and immigration are the notable areas where Trump can claim to have demonstrated some ideological consistency, if not a ton of movement.

In most other aspects, the nascent Trump presidency is very much a work in progress, or perhaps a work in regress from the rhetoric of his campaign.

The candidate who skewered China as a currency manipulator is now the president who declared that China is not a currency manipulator. The candidate critical of intervention in Syria and of suspicion toward Russia has now launched missiles into Syria and blamed the Russians for it.

He no longer thinks that NATO or the Export-Import Bank is unnecessary. He no longer cares whether President Obama’s health care law is entirely or even mostly repealed, as long as he can pass something that doesn’t send the whole system cratering.

As I wrote a few weeks ago, this is the actual story of these first 100 days — the story of a showman stunned by his own victory and trying to figure out whom he should listen to and how he wants to govern.

Which leads me to what I think are some uncomfortable questions for Trump’s critics, particularly in my own industry. If Trump turns out to be serious about growing into the job, do we have the capacity to let him? Or, as I’ve heard from a lot of angry readers over the past few months, are we already invested in watching him fail?

To be clear, whatever presuppositions Trump now faces among most of the reporters who cover him — and among the solid majority of voters who disapprove of his job performance — are of his own making. It’s hard to suddenly start granting the benefit of the doubt to someone who so brazenly lies about things both mundane and consequential.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/willing-let-trump-evolve-090022380.html


The last paragraph is more significant. It is ip to Trump to turn it around. The first thing he must do is NOT contradict himself so much and STOP BOLD FACE LYING. He needs to think before he tweets. To fess up and state that he criticism of Obama in the past (Syria, golfing, NATO, etc) were misplaced and he was WRONG. He was elected because he was not a politician but lies more than any politician so the one characteristic he had to his advantage has been wasted. He is 70 and this lying has been the story of his life so no one expects him to change. He is like an alcoholic who hasn't had a sober day in his whole life and professing he will change. After 50+ years you get tired of being disappointed.
 

exminister

Well-known member
Why would anyone pay attention to polls anymore after the election failure?

You repeat, I repeat.

The polls were right. Hillary won the popular vote. Polls did NOT consider the electoral college.

The careful polls are by far more accurate than not and there isn't really anything else left but confirmation bias, which is one of America's biggest problems by pushing an agenda over finding a common reality.
 
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