The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[freelight]

more light for you.......

more light for you.......

:nono: This isn't "Savior" it is 'save yourself' and not even 'save.'

There are some different concepts of 'salvation' being understood here. Passages on Jesus being 'Savior' from the UB have been presented. Since 'God' does give souls 'freedom of choice', this means they DO have response-ability, and can choose to follow God, to do good, and to choose the way of life, live for God, choose immortality. The call or man to 'repent' proves this, that he is ABLE to repent, to re-turn to Spirit. In all this, of course...it is the power, will and presence of 'God'....enabling, allowing, bringing all this into being, in co-creative and co-operative association.

The Urantia Book is Antichrist.

This is a false statement. The UB proves it false. Part 4 is all about the life, ministry, death, resurrection, ascension of Jesus, one of the most complete records of his life existing, which FULLY glorifies 'God' and 'Christ'. You apparently didnt read it.

 

[Caino]

No thanks :wave:

"143:2.4 “By the old way you seek to suppress, obey, and conform to the rules of living; by the new way you are first transformed by the Spirit of Truth and thereby strengthened in your inner soul by the constant spiritual renewing of your mind, and so are you endowed with the power of the certain and joyous performance of the gracious, acceptable, and perfect will of God. Forget not—it is your personal faith in the exceedingly great and precious promises of God that ensures your becoming partakers of the divine nature. Thus by your faith and the spirit's transformation, you become in reality the temples of God, and his spirit actually dwells within you. If, then, the spirit dwells within you, you are no longer bondslaves of the flesh but free and liberated sons of the spirit. The new law of the spirit endows you with the liberty of self-mastery in place of the old law of the fear of self-bondage and the slavery of self-denial."

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

It is possible. In fact, a few years from now....you might even discard your currently preferred religious book (holy and innerrant as it was once thought) and toss it into the trash bin.

Well, I suppose that's possible. When pigs fly.

 

[freelight]

Basics first.................

Basics first.................

Well, I suppose that's possible. When pigs fly.

Pigs flying as a metaphor here doesnt fly (so to speak). People do change their minds, religious faith, or may abandoning faith. Thats a fact of life,....people may have faith in God for a season, and then no faith in God, or may change paths, cultures or traditions as they evolve. It happens all the time. I for instance am fine knowing that my own spiritual path or religious journey will change, evolve, unfold. I'm fine with not knowing how my course will unfold, but trust divine love and will will grant knowledge and revelation in each moment.

Until you've read the first 5 or 12 papers, you dont know the fundamental theology of the text, from which all else relates to in a coherent whole. The greater cosmological context and hierarchy of the Paradise Trinity, sons of God/angels helps one get a better perspective of the purpose of creation/evolution.

First 12 papers -

1. The Universal Father
2. The Nature of God
3. The Attributes of God
4. God's Relation to the Universe
5. God's Relation to the Individual
6. The Eternal Son
7. Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe
8. The Infinite Spirit
9. Relation of the Infinite Spirit to the Universe
10. The Paradise Trinity
11. The Eternal Isle of Paradise
12. The Universe of Universes

Its a good start if interested to learn UB theology and cosmology.

 

[stephencbh]

I started listening to book 1 with an open mind.
Half an hour in, I have heard some Truth in it and like that it presents a loving God.
But it's not grabbing me, doesn't have much of a plot. Seems man made but dressed up. Very wordy.

I may come back to it, saw something about Nathaniel I'd like to read, believe that may be book 4.


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[patrick jane]

I started listening to book 1 with an open mind.
Half an hour in, I have heard some Truth in it and like that it presents a loving God.
But it's not grabbing me, doesn't have much of a plot. Seems man made but dressed up. Very wordy.

I may come back to it, saw something about Nathaniel I'd like to read, believe that may be book 4.


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I think the Urantia book is right up your alley

 

[stephencbh]

I think the Urantia book is right up your alley

Well you might be wrong.


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[Zeke]

I started listening to book 1 with an open mind.
Half an hour in, I have heard some Truth in it and like that it presents a loving God.
But it's not grabbing me, doesn't have much of a plot. Seems man made but dressed up. Very wordy.

I may come back to it, saw something about Nathaniel I'd like to read, believe that may be book 4.


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Yea it doesn't interest me that much seeing I don't prescribe to an outward kingdom or a historic Jesus other than as a pattern.

 

[freelight]

I started listening to book 1 with an open mind.
Half an hour in, I have heard some Truth in it and like that it presents a loving God.
But it's not grabbing me, doesn't have much of a plot. Seems man made but dressed up. Very wordy.

I may come back to it, saw something about Nathaniel I'd like to read, believe that may be book 4.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Super.

How much of a plot do you need? :idunno:

I think the first 12 papers pretty much cover the basics - then alot more is covered.

Part 4 is on Jesus life and ministry. The discussion linked earlier about the Master's dialogue with Nathaniel about the scriptures is very significant.

As granted, you are free to follow the Spirit of truth and your own conscience whevever they guide you

 

[freelight]

Yea it doesn't interest me that much seeing I don't prescribe to an outward kingdom or a historic Jesus other than as a pattern.

:thumb:

All is part of the TOTALITY - inner and outer, substance and form, arche-type and pattern.

 

[Caino]

"Keep in mind: It is loyalty, not sacrifice, that Jesus demands. The consciousness of sacrifice implies the absence of that wholehearted affection which would have made such a loving service a supreme joy. The idea of duty signifies that you are servant-minded and hence are missing the mighty thrill of doing your service as a friend and for a friend. The impulse of friendship transcends all convictions of duty, and the service of a friend for a friend can never be called a sacrifice. The Master has taught the apostles that they are the sons of God. He has called them brethren, and now, before he leaves, he calls them his friends." UB 1955

 

[Zeke]

That would include the wizard of oz in the same catagory a grand tale that teaches the dream of life in figurative characters like Jesus who is a pattern of the divine seed in man when awokened to where it fell from.

 

[stephencbh]

I listened to book 4:137
Seems to me it is a verbose version of the story of Yeshua.


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[Caino]

I listened to book 4:137
Seems to me it is a verbose version of the story of Yeshua.


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What's 4:137? Do you mean part 4? The Life and Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth?

 

[Caino]

THE CERTITUDE OF THE DIVINE


102:7.1 The Universal Father, being self-existent, is also self-explanatory; he actually lives in every rational mortal. But you cannot be sure about God unless you know him; sonship is the only experience which makes fatherhood certain. The universe is everywhere undergoing change. A changing universe is a dependent universe; such a creation cannot be either final or absolute. A finite universe is wholly dependent on the Ultimate and the Absolute. The universe and God are not identical; one is cause, the other effect. The cause is absolute, infinite, eternal, and changeless; the effect, time-space and transcendental but ever changing, always growing.

102:7.2 God is the one and only self-caused fact in the universe. He is the secret of the order, plan, and purpose of the whole creation of things and beings. The everywhere-changing universe is regulated and stabilized by absolutely unchanging laws, the habits of an unchanging God. The fact of God, the divine law, is changeless; the truth of God, his relation to the universe, is a relative revelation which is ever adaptable to the constantly evolving universe.

102:7.3 Those who would invent a religion without God are like those who would gather fruit without trees, have children without parents. You cannot have effects without causes; only the I AM is causeless. The fact of religious experience implies God, and such a God of personal experience must be a personal Deity. You cannot pray to a chemical formula, supplicate a mathematical equation, worship a hypothesis, confide in a postulate, commune with a process, serve an abstraction, or hold loving fellowship with a law.
102:7.4 True, many apparently religious traits can grow out of nonreligious roots. Man can, intellectually, deny God and yet be morally good, loyal, filial, honest, and even idealistic. Man may graft many purely humanistic branches onto his basic spiritual nature and thus apparently prove his contentions in behalf of a godless religion, but such an experience is devoid of survival values, God-knowingness and God- ascension. In such a mortal experience only social fruits are forthcoming, not spiritual. The graft determines the nature of the fruit, notwithstanding that the living sustenance is drawn from the roots of original divine endowment of both mind and spirit.

102:7.5 The intellectual earmark of religion is certainty; the philosophical characteristic is consistency; the social fruits are love and service.

102:7.6 The God-knowing individual is not one who is blind to the difficulties or unmindful of the obstacles which stand in the way of finding God in the maze of superstition, tradition, and materialistic tendencies of modern times. He has encountered all these deterrents and triumphed over them, surmounted them by living faith, and attained the highlands of spiritual experience in spite of them. But it is true that many who are inwardly sure about God fear to assert such feelings of certainty because of the multiplicity and cleverness of those who assemble objections and magnify difficulties about believing in God. It requires no great depth of intellect to pick flaws, ask questions, or raise objections. But it does require brilliance of mind to answer these questions and solve these difficulties; faith certainty is the greatest technique for dealing with all such superficial contentions.

102:7.7 If science, philosophy, or sociology dares to become dogmatic in contending with the prophets of true religion, then should God-knowing men reply to such unwarranted dogmatism with that more farseeing dogmatism of the certainty of personal spiritual experience, “I know what I have experienced because I am a son of I AM.” If the personal experience of a faither is to be challenged by dogma, then this faith-born son of the experiencible Father may reply with that unchallengeable dogma, the statement of his actual sonship with the Universal Father.

102:7.8 Only an unqualified reality, an absolute, could dare consistently to be dogmatic. Those who assume to be dogmatic must, if consistent, sooner or later be driven into the arms of the Absolute of energy, the Universal of truth, and the Infinite of love.

102:7.9 If the nonreligious approaches to cosmic reality presume to challenge the certainty of faith on the grounds of its unproved status, then the spirit experiencer can likewise resort to the dogmatic challenge of the facts of science and the beliefs of philosophy on the grounds that they are likewise unproved; they are likewise experiences in the consciousness of the scientist or the philosopher.

102:7.10 Of God, the most inescapable of all presences, the most real of all facts, the most living of all truths, the most loving of all friends, and the most divine of all values, we have the right to be the most certain of all universe experiences." UB 1955

 

[stephencbh]

What's 4:137? Do you mean part 4? The Life and Teachings of Jesus of Nazareth?

Yes


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[freelight]

Let your soul guide you.....

Let your soul guide you.....

I listened to book 4:137
Seems to me it is a verbose version of the story of Yeshua.


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Well,....perhaps a better more embellished story of Yeshua is better than one more refined and tailored by previous scribes, since from a newer dispensation of data from celestial sources and certain beings on the 'inner planes',...you might get a more comprehensive picture of the life, teachings and mission of the Master. If anything, since Part 4 is many times more informational than the NT, you can read it for yourself and make up your own mind as to its religious worth and spiritual value. If it resonates with you,...so be it, ....if it doesn't....thats fine as well. It is what it is,...it may not be for everyone, but for some it does resonate as having real religious value and spiritual meaning. Thats what its all about.

 

[freelight]

You are the temple of God...............

You are the temple of God...............

That would include the wizard of oz in the same catagory a grand tale that teaches the dream of life in figurative characters like Jesus who is a pattern of the divine seed in man when awokened to where it fell from.

Of course, all we have about Jesus is in story form,....all we have is a record of his story, from purported witnesses and heresay, written down and copied over many times (there being variant readings, additions, ommissions, interpolations here and there), different translations or textual traditions and lineages of manuscripts...into what we have today, as well as gospels that did not make into the accepted traditional 'canon'. All we have to hang our faith or knowledge on, depending on how we 'translate' and 'interpret' the STORY, is the story itself, and what the man Jesus represents to us,...HOW this man or 'God-man' (depending on what theology or 'Christology' you accept) REVEALS 'God' to us. 'Immanuel'.

Jesus as a 'prototypal' figure, is the 'New Man', or 'Second/Last Adam' (Adam-Kadmon figure), so we see that as Jesus said "be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect",...he was typifying our perfection as souls, indwelled by God,....and that divine spirit-fragment in man, as being en-souled by 'God',...so that the human and divine elements of the personality can become synergized, married, co-mingled as one, in perfection. One can interpret this as they choose, but our perfection as a human soul would be in having our surviving personality merge its human and divine parts into a synthesized and complimentary whole, a unified living soul, having put on 'immortality' (the divine nature), becoming like God (which includes the human soul being perfected in its highest more perfect potential as it is wholly married to divinity - this is where the divine spirit in the mind of man, the 'thought-adjuster' becomes one with the surviving personality, being 'fused' and thereby attains the 'ascension' into the purer realm of spirit).

There are many ways to interpret this,...but universally it is 'Christ in us, the hope of glory', the spirit of God in man's soul, the divinity within, the immortal seed, that in us is the hope of immortality (our glory unfolded in its utmost beauty in divine perfection).

Is Jesus saying to 'be perfect in the perfection of God' significant? YES,....and in the context of Matt. 5...that perfection was about in HOW we LOVE others,...loving them as God loves them. So we see that this wholeness, indivisible quality of loving concern and VALUE, is at the heart-source of HOW we are perfected in God, and that is by LOVE itself. (Love is the divine law, the fulfillment).

 

[freelight]

Earning is a principle in the kingdom......

Earning is a principle in the kingdom......

"Keep in mind: It is loyalty, not sacrifice, that Jesus demands. The consciousness of sacrifice implies the absence of that wholehearted affection which would have made such a loving service a supreme joy. The idea of duty signifies that you are servant-minded and hence are missing the mighty thrill of doing your service as a friend and for a friend. The impulse of friendship transcends all convictions of duty, and the service of a friend for a friend can never be called a sacrifice. The Master has taught the apostles that they are the sons of God. He has called them brethren, and now, before he leaves, he calls them his friends." UB 1955

Sacrifices that leave a trail of physical blood, speaking of the pain, suffering and death of animals or men cannot satisfy, appease or please the heart of God who is love, but only the surrender of the soul to the Spirit.

The pouring out of blood is figurative of the soul-life giving itself wholly to 'God' in service. It is your own sacrifice (surrendering) of self to God that avails, which is why only your own repentance and serving of truth is what counts for your own salvation and exaltation, which of course by divine grace and power, affords you the 'earning' of exaltation. What is unfortunate is some within the pop-culture of evangelical Christianity think any idea of 'earning' anything in life denies 'grace',....not at all,....grace ALLOWS for spiritual earning. All is indeed by God's grace, of course....but rewards, achievement, certain attainments only come by one's own endeavored and willed accomplishments in the service of God. I thought to bring this up,...if any wanted to expand on this.

"and each were judged according to their works"

"and to those who overcome, they shall receive such and such a reward"

I will add that I was introduced into the nuance of 'spiritual earning' from some of my study in the school of Niscience. The principle holds, and may be worthy of further discusssion and exploration.

 

[Zeke]

Of course, all we have about Jesus is in story form,....all we have is a record of his story, from purported witnesses and heresay, written down and copied over many times (there being variant readings, additions, ommissions, interpolations here and there), different translations or textual traditions and lineages of manuscripts...into what we have today, as well as gospels that did not make into the accepted traditional 'canon'. All we have to hang our faith or knowledge on, depending on how we 'translate' and 'interpret' the STORY, is the story itself, and what the man Jesus represents to us,...HOW this man or 'God-man' (depending on what theology or 'Christology' you accept) REVEALS 'God' to us. 'Immanuel'.

Jesus as a 'prototypal' figure, is the 'New Man', or 'Second/Last Adam' (Adam-Kadmon figure), so we see that as Jesus said "be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect",...he was typifying our perfection as souls, indwelled by God,....and that divine spirit-fragment in man, as being en-souled by 'God',...so that the human and divine elements of the personality can become synergized, married, co-mingled as one, in perfection. One can interpret this as they choose, but our perfection as a human soul would be in having our surviving personality merge its human and divine parts into a synthesized and complimentary whole, a unified living soul, having put on 'immortality' (the divine nature), becoming like God (which includes the human soul being perfected in its highest more perfect potential as it is wholly married to divinity - this is where the divine spirit in the mind of man, the 'thought-adjuster' becomes one with the surviving personality, being 'fused' and thereby attains the 'ascension' into the purer realm of spirit).

There are many ways to interpret this,...but universally it is 'Christ in us, the hope of glory', the spirit of God in man's soul, the divinity within, the immortal seed, that in us is the hope of immortality (our glory unfolded in its utmost beauty in divine perfection).

Is Jesus saying to 'be perfect in the perfection of God' significant? YES,....and in the context of Matt. 5...that perfection was about in HOW we LOVE others,...loving them as God loves them. So we see that this wholeness, indivisible quality of loving concern and VALUE, is at the heart-source of HOW we are perfected in God, and that is by LOVE itself. (Love is the divine law, the fulfillment).

And that takes place within, the outward adventures are symbols of that metaphorical. Journey. The Dream state of Divine amnesia.