The Late Great Urantia Revelation

[Caino]

As for asking who is David's father, it could be because Saul promised to reward the man who killed Goliath by giving his father’s house exemption from taxes in Israel.

1 Samuel 17:25 Now the Israelites had been saying, "Do you see how this man keeps coming out? He comes out to defy Israel. The king will give great wealth to the man who kills him. He will also give him his daughter in marriage and will exempt his family from taxes in Israel."

As for Saul commenting on David's appearance, it could very well be to draw attention to the amazement of being such a young person yet such a fierce warrior.

David was a young man. Maybe when he played the harp he was just a teenager, and then later grew up to be a fighter with facial hair and muscles. I can hardly believe you want to cast doubt on the whole Bible because of some things you do not understand.

Or you are making excuses for the editing done by the people who killed Jesus. Its obvious outside of the bias. Only God is perfect.

 

[freelight]

Or you are making excuses for the editing done by the people who killed Jesus. Its obvious outside of the bias. Only God is perfect.

Editing would be natural as the texts had to be 'tailorized' so to speak to suit the needs of the religious community, at the times when the opportunity for such by the scribes was open for that to happen. Naturally then, there are contradictions of info. in various OT books concerning specific events, variant readings, etc. As I've maintained anyways,....a belief in 'inerrancy' or 'infallibility' of any religious text whatsoever is 'unnecessary'. Such a belief is not necessary to authenticate or appreciate any spiritual truth or wisdom that any given book might contain. - and even still, the INFINITE can NEVER be limited to or fully contained in a book. Revelation by nature in this realm of conditional space and time, is naturally PROGRESSIVE.

 

[God's Truth]

Or you are making excuses for the editing done by the people who killed Jesus. Its obvious outside of the bias. Only God is perfect.

Not all the Jews killed Jesus.

 

[freelight]

Freedom from ritual blood sacrifice and its proliferation of guilt............

Freedom from ritual blood sacrifice and its proliferation of guilt............

~*~*~

Just a note, I see that LA has closed the thread he made entitled "Atonement without blood according to Freelight' here - I was going to respond, but apparently he did not want me to CONTINUE to expound upon the fact and logic that there CERTAINLY is 'atonement' and 'forgiveness' of sins available without the necessity of having ANY bloodshed. This FACT is actually part of the goodnews.

:thumb:

 

[God's Truth]

~*~*~

Just a note, I see that LA has closed the thread he made entitled "Atonement without blood according to Freelight' here - I was going to respond, but apparently he did not want me to CONTINUE to expound upon the fact and logic that there CERTAINLY is 'atonement' and 'forgiveness' of sins available without the necessity of having ANY bloodshed. This FACT is actually part of the goodnews.

:thumb:

God says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

We are reconciled to God by the blood of Christ.

 

[Caino]

God says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

We are reconciled to God by the blood of Christ.

God said he forgives as we firgive others. Killing Jesus was wrong and the original gospel was largely lost to history.

 

[God's Truth]

God said he forgives as we firgive others. Killing Jesus was wrong and the original gospel was largely lost to history.

The Old Testament purification/ceremonial law was a teaching tool about how Jesus would die for us one day, and how his blood cleans us and reconciles us to God. It is about washing and it is about what is spiritual.

 

[freelight]

Cruelty free atonement........

Cruelty free atonement........

God says without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Wrong, read the thread with the evidence against this belief - this is only written by the writer of Hebrews,.....the shedding of blood in the OT was not the only way sins were atoned for. The thread I linked here and all my commentary there covers this amply. Uri Yosef also does a good job in proving this NOTION wrong here :thumb:

We are reconciled to God by the blood of Christ.

We've already covered the whole blood-atonement concept-theory as well as the UB's teaching on it, with reference as well to the Eucharist here and elsewhere. The blood is symbolic of many things, but there are multiple ways to interpret such, and any one given 'interpretation' is not always a 'necessary' one.

Asides from any blood-letting, the one fundamental and essential WAY of return to God has always been genuine REPENTANCE, a returning to 'God' and the path of righteousness, making amends for one's wrongdoing and returning to 'right-doing'. This is the cry of John the Baptist and the later prophets, who often scolded and rebuked the temple system and her priests who engrossed in blood offerings but did not bear fruits worthy of repentance,....so that such offerings were a stench in God's nostrils! Physical blood anyways has no power in and of itself to EFFECT an 'atonement' or a change in conscience or inner transformation. This is why repentance is the essential, while any other religious ritual you use to compliment your repentance is fine, but it CANNOT REPLACE genuine repentance, the change of life and return to righteousness.

 

[God's Truth]

Wrong, read the thread with the evidence against this belief - this is only written by the writer of Hebrews,.....the shedding of blood in the OT was not the only way sins were atoned for. The thread I linked here and all my commentary there covers this amply. Uri Yosef also does a good job in proving this NOTION wrong here :thumb:



We've already covered the whole blood-atonement concept-theory as well as the UB's teaching on it, with reference as well to the Eucharist here and elsewhere. The blood is symbolic of many things, but there are multiple ways to interpret such, and any one given 'interpretation' is not always a 'necessary' one.

Asides from any blood-letting, the one fundamental and essential WAY of return to God has always been genuine REPENTANCE, a returning to 'God' and the path of righteousness, making amends for one's wrongdoing and returning to 'right-doing'. This is the cry of John the Baptist and the later prophets, who often scolded and rebuked the temple system and her priests who engrossed in blood offerings but did not bear fruits worthy of repentance,....so that such offerings were a stench in God's nostrils! Physical blood anyways has no power in and of itself to EFFECT an 'atonement' or a change in conscience or inner transformation. This is why repentance is the essential, while any other religious ritual you use to compliment your repentance is fine, but it CANNOT REPLACE genuine repentance, the change of life and return to righteousness.

Even after someone REPENTED of their sins in the Old Testament times---they STILL had to obey the purification/ceremonial works.

As for God not liking their sacrifices, it is because they would sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins!

 

[Caino]

The Old Testament purification/ceremonial law was a teaching tool about how Jesus would die for us one day, and how his blood cleans us and reconciles us to God. It is about washing and it is about what is spiritual.

That's post cross speculation on a savage, fallen world that thinks killing the Son of God as a sacrifice pleases God. God was already forgiving of his children, rejecting his Son's gospel wasn't necessary.

 

[God's Truth]

That's post cross speculation on a savage, fallen world that thinks killing the Son of God as a sacrifice pleases God. God was already forgiving of his children, rejecting his Son's gospel wasn't necessary.

God came as a Man in the flesh to die for our sins.

There is no Greater Love than Jesus.

John 15:13 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are My friends if you do what I command you.

 

[Lon]

cruelty free atonement

Because you don't recognize your heart as detestable and desperately wicked. Of course you don't need the Lord Jesus Christ: You nor Caino. Of course you don't. It is sad. You are exactly right. The Lord Jesus came for the sick, not the 'well.' You WILL get exactly what you desire: A life without the Lord Jesus Christ. Congratulations.

 

[God's Truth]

Because you don't recognize your heart as detestable and desperately wicked. Of course you don't need the Lord Jesus Christ: You nor Caino. Of course you don't. It is sad. You are exactly right. The Lord Jesus came for the sick, not the 'well.' You WILL get exactly what you desire: A life without the Lord Jesus Christ. Congratulations.

Lon, you were taught wrong about about the heart.

I implore you to consider carefully. That scripture is about how the heart can be desperately wicked above all things. That does not mean everyone's heart is desperately wicked. It means that out of all the things in the world, the human heart of one wicked, is wicked above all things.

 

[Lon]

Lon, you were taught wrong about about the heart.

I implore you to consider carefully. That scripture is about how the heart can be desperately wicked above all things. That does not mean everyone's heart is desperately wicked. It means that out of all the things in the world, the human heart of one wicked, is wicked above all things.

Then you have no need for a Savior either? Mark 2:17 Luke 5:31,32 Matthew 9:12,13

What do you have to offer these two gentlemen if not the need for the Lord Jesus Christ? Why would you argue with me, against their need for a Savior? Are you a fool? Hate the Lord Jesus Christ? His message? Why in the wide-world did you come into this thread and tell two unsaved individuals that they are 'fine' and do not need the Lord Jesus Christ? ??? Why? Why did you feel compelled to step in the way between them and Him?

 

[God's Truth]

Then you have no need for a Savior either?

Of course we all need a Savior, but it doesn’t mean all are so wicked.

Mark 2:17Luke 5:31,32 Matthew 9:12,13

All are sinners, but not all admit it. We have to admit we have sinned and fall SHORT. It does not mean all are totally and utterly depraved.

What do you have to offer these two gentlemen if not the need for the Lord Jesus Christ? Why would you argue with me, against their need for a Savior? Are you a fool? Hate the Lord Jesus Christ? His message? Why in the wide-world did you come into this thread and tell two unsaved individuals that they are 'fine' and do not need the Lord Jesus Christ? ??? Why? Why did you feel compelled to step in the way between them and Him?

They know better than you when it comes to calling all humans desperately wicked. Even though you tell untruths about me, I still want to help you.

 

[freelight]

One with Deity

One with Deity

Because you don't recognize your heart as detestable and desperately wicked. Of course you don't need the Lord Jesus Christ: You nor Caino. Of course you don't. It is sad. You are exactly right. The Lord Jesus came for the sick, not the 'well.' You WILL get exactly what you desire: A life without the Lord Jesus Christ. Congratulations.

Your belief in 'total depravity' obscures and disfigures the original goodness and divine image in man, to say nothing of that divine spirit indwelling the soul, the 'thought adjuster'.

The Lord Jesus, our Creator Son....is very much in relationship with his children by the very fact of existence, although relationships grow and evolve to unfold their true potential and possibilities which is what life is about. The Urantia Book is a manifold narrative of the soul's journey in the love and light of God, so does not agree with your distorted purview of his infinite and unlimited grace.

A life with the Creator Son, Christ-Michael, and the Universal Father is what the UB is all about, so your ignorance of its teachings are apparent. The path of eternal progression and ascension in Spirit is the way of love and service as the kingdom is within. This universal truth is at the heart of all true teachings. The infinite cannot be limited, prescribed or diminished by any one exclusive dogmatic formula assuming it is absolute, since truth-perception in this realm of space and time is relative.

The infinite I AM is the universal and absolute reality of being and identity, and abides in each individual soul as the indwelling 'spirit' of the infinite, the ' spirit-monitor', 'Father-fragmment', 'thought-adjuster'....The very pre-personal presence of Deity itself. This essence of being is the heart of the real 'self' which the evolving personality will fuse with, thus putting on immortality. This is the true mystical wedding of the soul with Deity, where the two become one

Such a theology surely includes the Lord Jesus who reveals the way, truth and life of God in man....and as man.

 

[Lon]

Your belief in 'total depravity' obscures and disfigures the original goodness and divine image in man, to say nothing of that divine spirit indwelling the soul, the 'thought adjuster'.

You are absurd. "If" it were true, this is one deity speaking life to another. One of us right, the other not. You, being your own deity, can't and won't take correction. You are EXACTLY where your nature has you. You might have as well stayed a Mormon, being your own god. You traded for a 'better you' and that one still not sick enough to need a Savior. More is the pity. Your 'god' verses my 'god' (self) is self-defeating, thus you lose again. One day logic might take place over emoting into the shallow pond you believe is infinity.

It is brain-dead counter-intuitive postulation. As long as you want to live by it, by all means, "heal thyself." I'll be seeking a MUCH higher power, well-beyond your or my juvenile puerile attempts. -Lon

 

[Lon]

Of course we all need a Savior, but it doesn’t mean all are so wicked.



All are sinners, but not all admit it. We have to admit we have sinned and fall SHORT. It does not mean all are totally and utterly depraved.



They know better than you when it comes to calling all humans desperately wicked. Even though you tell untruths about me, I still want to help you.

There you go. You just offered them nothing and condemned them to life without a Savior or need for one. Nice going. Take 'Christian' out of your name. Thanks for nothing GT. You don't even believe the Bible. Their only hope is/was/ever will be the Lord Jesus Christ. Way to obfuscate Him and our need for Him in front of them. :applaud: And all heaven cries.

 

[freelight]

You are absurd. "If" it were true, this is one deity speaking life to another. One of us right, the other not. You, being your own deity, can't and won't take correction. You are EXACTLY where your nature has you. You might have as well stayed a Mormon, being your own god. You traded for a 'better you' and that one still not sick enough to need a Savior. More is the pity. Your 'god' verses my 'god' (self) is self-defeating, thus you lose again. One day logic might take place over emoting into the shallow pond you believe is infinity.

Eternal infinite Life is ever living and conscious. We as individual expressions of consciousness are more or less conditioned. All points of view in space and time are relative to the viewer

It is brain-dead counter-intuitive postulation. As long as you want to live by it, by all means, "heal thyself." I'll be seeking a MUCH higher power, well-beyond your or my juvenile puerile attempts. -Lon

The higher power is no higher than you've assumed it to be, since the spirit of 'God' is here omnipresently. Consider what is truly infinite. You cannot contain, prescribe or monopolize infinity

 

[Lon]

Eternal infinite Life is ever living and conscious. We as individual expressions of consciousness are more or less conditioned. All points of view in space and time are relative to the viewer



The higher power is no higher than you've assumed it to be, since the spirit of 'God' is here omnipresently. Consider what is truly infinite. You cannot contain, prescribe or monopolize infinity

Your 'brokeness' is embraced as if it is 'all there is' and you call that infinite. I know, per fact, you are broken and in need of a Savior. I didn't lie to myself that day. You are the worst of liars: You believe your lies.