The Late Great Urantia Revelation
- Thread starter Caino
- Start date
- Status
Caino's 'urantia papers' are nothing but, comic book fodder for people
like him! His ignorance even amazes him!
The UB is a revelation authorized by Jesus Christ and compiled by celestial beings, some of which were on the earth when Jesus was here. A new revelation has occurred. "By their fruits yea shall know them." Read the story and decide for yourself.
BTW, the gospels were written until long after Jesus left, they don't even agree with each other in some areas.
Jamie, this explains part of where the UB comes from.
(1341.2) 121:8.1 As far as possible, consistent with our mandate, we have endeavored to utilize and to some extent co-ordinate the existing records having to do with the life of Jesus on Urantia. Although we have enjoyed access to the lost record of the Apostle Andrew and have benefited from the collaboration of a vast host of celestial beings who were on earth during the times of Michael’s bestowal (notably his now Personalized Adjuster), it has been our purpose also to make use of the so-called Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
(1341.3) 121:8.2 These New Testament records had their origin in the following circumstances:
(1341.4) 121:8.3 1. The Gospel by Mark. John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus’ life. He presented the Master as a minister, as man among men. Although Mark was a lad lingering about many of the scenes which he depicts, his record is in reality the Gospel according to Simon Peter. He was early associated with Peter; later with Paul. Mark wrote this record at the instigation of Peter and on the earnest petition of the church at Rome. Knowing how consistently the Master refused to write out his teachings when on earth and in the flesh, Mark, like the apostles and other leading disciples, was hesitant to put them in writing. But Peter felt the church at Rome required the assistance of such a written narrative, and Mark consented to undertake its preparation. He made many notes before Peter died in A.D. 67, and in accordance with the outline approved by Peter and for the church at Rome, he began his writing soon after Peter’s death. The Gospel was completed near the end of A.D. 68. Mark wrote entirely from his own memory and Peter’s memory. The record has since been considerably changed, numerous passages having been taken out and some later matter added at the end to replace the latter one fifth of the original Gospel, which was lost from the first manuscript before it was ever copied. This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew’s and Matthew’s notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.
(1341.5) 121:8.4 2. The Gospel of Matthew. The so-called Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the Master’s life which was written for the edification of Jewish Christians. The author of this record constantly seeks to show in Jesus’ life that much which he did was that “it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.” Matthew’s Gospel portrays Jesus as a son of David, picturing him as showing great respect for the law and the prophets.
(1341.6) 121:8.5 The Apostle Matthew did not write this Gospel. It was written by Isador, one of his disciples, who had as a help in his work not only Matthew’s personal remembrance of these events but also a certain record which the latter had made of the sayings of Jesus directly after the crucifixion. This record by Matthew was written in Aramaic; Isador wrote in Greek. There was no intent to deceive in accrediting the production to Matthew. It was the custom in those days for pupils thus to honor their teachers.
(1342.1) 121:8.6 Matthew’s original record was edited and added to in A.D. 40 just before he left Jerusalem to engage in evangelistic preaching. It was a private record, the last copy having been destroyed in the burning of a Syrian monastery in A.D. 416.
(1342.2) 121:8.7 Isador escaped from Jerusalem in A.D. 70 after the investment of the city by the armies of Titus, taking with him to Pella a copy of Matthew’s notes. In the year 71, while living at Pella, Isador wrote the Gospel according to Matthew. He also had with him the first four fifths of Mark’s narrative.
(1342.3) 121:8.8 3. The Gospel by Luke. Luke, the physician of Antioch in Pisidia, was a gentile convert of Paul, and he wrote quite a different story of the Master’s life. He began to follow Paul and learn of the life and teachings of Jesus in A.D. 47. Luke preserves much of the “grace of the Lord Jesus Christ” in his record as he gathered up these facts from Paul and others. Luke presents the Master as “the friend of publicans and sinners.” He did not formulate his many notes into the Gospel until after Paul’s death. Luke wrote in the year 82 in Achaia. He planned three books dealing with the history of Christ and Christianity but died in A.D. 90 just before he finished the second of these works, the “Acts of the Apostles.”
(1342.4) 121:8.9 As material for the compilation of his Gospel, Luke first depended upon the story of Jesus’ life as Paul had related it to him. Luke’s Gospel is, therefore, in some ways the Gospel according to Paul. But Luke had other sources of information. He not only interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the numerous episodes of Jesus’ life which he records, but he also had with him a copy of Mark’s Gospel, that is, the first four fifths, Isador’s narrative, and a brief record made in the year A.D. 78 at Antioch by a believer named Cedes. Luke also had a mutilated and much-edited copy of some notes purported to have been made by the Apostle Andrew.
(1342.5) 121:8.10 4. The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus’ work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as “First John” was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction.
(1342.6) 121:8.11 All these writers presented honest pictures of Jesus as they saw, remembered, or had learned of him, and as their concepts of these distant events were affected by their subsequent espousal of Paul’s theology of Christianity. And these records, imperfect as they are, have been sufficient to change the course of the history of Urantia for almost two thousand years.
(1343.1) 121:8.12 [Acknowledgment: In carrying out my commission to restate the teachings and retell the doings of Jesus of Nazareth, I have drawn freely upon all sources of record and planetary information. My ruling motive has been to prepare a record which will not only be enlightening to the generation of men now living, but which may also be helpful to all future generations. From the vast store of information made available to me, I have chosen that which is best suited to the accomplishment of this purpose. As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman. When ideas and concepts of Jesus’ life and teachings have been acceptably expressed by a human mind, I invariably gave preference to such apparently human thought patterns. Although I have sought to adjust the verbal expression the better to conform to our concept of the real meaning and the true import of the Master’s life and teachings, as far as possible, I have adhered to the actual human concept and thought pattern in all my narratives. I well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds. When unable to find the necessary concepts in the human records or in human expressions, I have next resorted to the memory resources of my own order of earth creatures, the midwayers. And when that secondary source of information proved inadequate, I have unhesitatingly resorted to the superplanetary sources of information.
(1343.2) 121:8.13 The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus — aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew — embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus’ teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.
(1343.3) 121:8.14 While I, with the collaboration of my eleven associate fellow midwayers and under the supervision of the Melchizedek of record, have portrayed this narrative in accordance with my concept of its effective arrangement and in response to my choice of immediate expression, nevertheless, the majority of the ideas and even some of the effective expressions which I have thus utilized had their origin in the minds of the men of many races who have lived on earth during the intervening generations, right on down to those who are still alive at the time of this undertaking. In many ways I have served more as a collector and editor than as an original narrator. I have unhesitatingly appropriated those ideas and concepts, preferably human, which would enable me to create the most effective portraiture of Jesus’ life, and which would qualify me to restate his matchless teachings in the most strikingly helpful and universally uplifting phraseology. In behalf of the Brotherhood of the United Midwayers of Urantia, I most gratefully acknowledge our indebtedness to all sources of record and concept which have been hereinafter utilized in the further elaboration of our restatement of Jesus’ life on earth.]
(1341.2) 121:8.1 As far as possible, consistent with our mandate, we have endeavored to utilize and to some extent co-ordinate the existing records having to do with the life of Jesus on Urantia. Although we have enjoyed access to the lost record of the Apostle Andrew and have benefited from the collaboration of a vast host of celestial beings who were on earth during the times of Michael’s bestowal (notably his now Personalized Adjuster), it has been our purpose also to make use of the so-called Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
(1341.3) 121:8.2 These New Testament records had their origin in the following circumstances:
(1341.4) 121:8.3 1. The Gospel by Mark. John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus’ life. He presented the Master as a minister, as man among men. Although Mark was a lad lingering about many of the scenes which he depicts, his record is in reality the Gospel according to Simon Peter. He was early associated with Peter; later with Paul. Mark wrote this record at the instigation of Peter and on the earnest petition of the church at Rome. Knowing how consistently the Master refused to write out his teachings when on earth and in the flesh, Mark, like the apostles and other leading disciples, was hesitant to put them in writing. But Peter felt the church at Rome required the assistance of such a written narrative, and Mark consented to undertake its preparation. He made many notes before Peter died in A.D. 67, and in accordance with the outline approved by Peter and for the church at Rome, he began his writing soon after Peter’s death. The Gospel was completed near the end of A.D. 68. Mark wrote entirely from his own memory and Peter’s memory. The record has since been considerably changed, numerous passages having been taken out and some later matter added at the end to replace the latter one fifth of the original Gospel, which was lost from the first manuscript before it was ever copied. This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew’s and Matthew’s notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.
(1341.5) 121:8.4 2. The Gospel of Matthew. The so-called Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the Master’s life which was written for the edification of Jewish Christians. The author of this record constantly seeks to show in Jesus’ life that much which he did was that “it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet.” Matthew’s Gospel portrays Jesus as a son of David, picturing him as showing great respect for the law and the prophets.
(1341.6) 121:8.5 The Apostle Matthew did not write this Gospel. It was written by Isador, one of his disciples, who had as a help in his work not only Matthew’s personal remembrance of these events but also a certain record which the latter had made of the sayings of Jesus directly after the crucifixion. This record by Matthew was written in Aramaic; Isador wrote in Greek. There was no intent to deceive in accrediting the production to Matthew. It was the custom in those days for pupils thus to honor their teachers.
(1342.1) 121:8.6 Matthew’s original record was edited and added to in A.D. 40 just before he left Jerusalem to engage in evangelistic preaching. It was a private record, the last copy having been destroyed in the burning of a Syrian monastery in A.D. 416.
(1342.2) 121:8.7 Isador escaped from Jerusalem in A.D. 70 after the investment of the city by the armies of Titus, taking with him to Pella a copy of Matthew’s notes. In the year 71, while living at Pella, Isador wrote the Gospel according to Matthew. He also had with him the first four fifths of Mark’s narrative.
(1342.3) 121:8.8 3. The Gospel by Luke. Luke, the physician of Antioch in Pisidia, was a gentile convert of Paul, and he wrote quite a different story of the Master’s life. He began to follow Paul and learn of the life and teachings of Jesus in A.D. 47. Luke preserves much of the “grace of the Lord Jesus Christ” in his record as he gathered up these facts from Paul and others. Luke presents the Master as “the friend of publicans and sinners.” He did not formulate his many notes into the Gospel until after Paul’s death. Luke wrote in the year 82 in Achaia. He planned three books dealing with the history of Christ and Christianity but died in A.D. 90 just before he finished the second of these works, the “Acts of the Apostles.”
(1342.4) 121:8.9 As material for the compilation of his Gospel, Luke first depended upon the story of Jesus’ life as Paul had related it to him. Luke’s Gospel is, therefore, in some ways the Gospel according to Paul. But Luke had other sources of information. He not only interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the numerous episodes of Jesus’ life which he records, but he also had with him a copy of Mark’s Gospel, that is, the first four fifths, Isador’s narrative, and a brief record made in the year A.D. 78 at Antioch by a believer named Cedes. Luke also had a mutilated and much-edited copy of some notes purported to have been made by the Apostle Andrew.
(1342.5) 121:8.10 4. The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus’ work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as “First John” was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction.
(1342.6) 121:8.11 All these writers presented honest pictures of Jesus as they saw, remembered, or had learned of him, and as their concepts of these distant events were affected by their subsequent espousal of Paul’s theology of Christianity. And these records, imperfect as they are, have been sufficient to change the course of the history of Urantia for almost two thousand years.
(1343.1) 121:8.12 [Acknowledgment: In carrying out my commission to restate the teachings and retell the doings of Jesus of Nazareth, I have drawn freely upon all sources of record and planetary information. My ruling motive has been to prepare a record which will not only be enlightening to the generation of men now living, but which may also be helpful to all future generations. From the vast store of information made available to me, I have chosen that which is best suited to the accomplishment of this purpose. As far as possible I have derived my information from purely human sources. Only when such sources failed, have I resorted to those records which are superhuman. When ideas and concepts of Jesus’ life and teachings have been acceptably expressed by a human mind, I invariably gave preference to such apparently human thought patterns. Although I have sought to adjust the verbal expression the better to conform to our concept of the real meaning and the true import of the Master’s life and teachings, as far as possible, I have adhered to the actual human concept and thought pattern in all my narratives. I well know that those concepts which have had origin in the human mind will prove more acceptable and helpful to all other human minds. When unable to find the necessary concepts in the human records or in human expressions, I have next resorted to the memory resources of my own order of earth creatures, the midwayers. And when that secondary source of information proved inadequate, I have unhesitatingly resorted to the superplanetary sources of information.
(1343.2) 121:8.13 The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus — aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew — embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus’ teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.
(1343.3) 121:8.14 While I, with the collaboration of my eleven associate fellow midwayers and under the supervision of the Melchizedek of record, have portrayed this narrative in accordance with my concept of its effective arrangement and in response to my choice of immediate expression, nevertheless, the majority of the ideas and even some of the effective expressions which I have thus utilized had their origin in the minds of the men of many races who have lived on earth during the intervening generations, right on down to those who are still alive at the time of this undertaking. In many ways I have served more as a collector and editor than as an original narrator. I have unhesitatingly appropriated those ideas and concepts, preferably human, which would enable me to create the most effective portraiture of Jesus’ life, and which would qualify me to restate his matchless teachings in the most strikingly helpful and universally uplifting phraseology. In behalf of the Brotherhood of the United Midwayers of Urantia, I most gratefully acknowledge our indebtedness to all sources of record and concept which have been hereinafter utilized in the further elaboration of our restatement of Jesus’ life on earth.]
Sounds like pure unmitigated hogwash, a bit! Did you realize that?
And that is exactly what Judaism said to Jesus's revelation, do you realize that? Or can you not think outside of your hatred box?
"And He came home, and the crowd gathered again, to such an extent that they could not even eat a meal. When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses." The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons."… Mark 3:21
same thing, different day.
Too bad you don't have logic and truth on your side! However, you
can still exist without either one! Many do!
Or maybe you just don't understand the message, so all that is left for a small mind to do is to criticize the messenger. You aren’t the center of the universe Grosnick, the world will continue on without you.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
learn first, then discuss.......
learn first, then discuss.......
Not if seen from the perspective of the revelators, understanding their explanation with intelligence, if you would comprehend their explanation for what its worth, and then let the record speak for itself. Its no more believable than what accounts exist in the canonical gospels of Jesus purported words and miracles (add any other mythological or supernatural embellishments), or in the Bible in general with its extraordinary stories, some borrowed from pagan traditions that pre-date its writing.
Furthermore, the UB confirms and expands on what is given in the canonical gospels adding more information about the 'kingdom of heaven' Jesus taught, within the greater-context of the papers expansion of truth made appropriate for the age receiving it, since man had reached a point in his spiritual evolution to make it available. (its 'focus' is the 'Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man' which culminates in a new era of light and life on the planet, the vision and goal).
In addition, since you cant prove physically that Jesus or even a 'Paul' ever existed beyond the NT record itself or confirmations in other reports of those records (anything outside it is debatable)...you take its 'story' literally and as a historical fact anyways BY FAITH. On that note there are dozens of religious fiction writings, sci-fi novels, cutting-edge literary works of metaphysical value and import that are just as 'inspired' as olden writing deemed as 'scripture', since the Spirit of God blows where it wills, and we see the effects thereof. You cant put 'God' in a box.
Since you haven't yet read the first 10 or 12 papers (here) at least to discover the fundamentals of its 'theology', you cant really critique it with an informed or intelligent evaluation let alone have a dialogue of its contents. That would be a minimal requirement, while all else are just details within the greater cosmological frame-work.
pj
learn first, then discuss.......
Not if seen from the perspective of the revelators, understanding their explanation with intelligence, if you would comprehend their explanation for what its worth, and then let the record speak for itself. Its no more believable than what accounts exist in the canonical gospels of Jesus purported words and miracles (add any other mythological or supernatural embellishments), or in the Bible in general with its extraordinary stories, some borrowed from pagan traditions that pre-date its writing.
Furthermore, the UB confirms and expands on what is given in the canonical gospels adding more information about the 'kingdom of heaven' Jesus taught, within the greater-context of the papers expansion of truth made appropriate for the age receiving it, since man had reached a point in his spiritual evolution to make it available. (its 'focus' is the 'Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man' which culminates in a new era of light and life on the planet, the vision and goal).
In addition, since you cant prove physically that Jesus or even a 'Paul' ever existed beyond the NT record itself or confirmations in other reports of those records (anything outside it is debatable)...you take its 'story' literally and as a historical fact anyways BY FAITH. On that note there are dozens of religious fiction writings, sci-fi novels, cutting-edge literary works of metaphysical value and import that are just as 'inspired' as olden writing deemed as 'scripture', since the Spirit of God blows where it wills, and we see the effects thereof. You cant put 'God' in a box.
Since you haven't yet read the first 10 or 12 papers (here) at least to discover the fundamentals of its 'theology', you cant really critique it with an informed or intelligent evaluation let alone have a dialogue of its contents. That would be a minimal requirement, while all else are just details within the greater cosmological frame-work.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Paper 7 - Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe
Paper 7 - Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe
~*~*~
Continuing our chronological video series from Paper 6 (portal site here)
~*~*~
~*~*~
Paper 7 - Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe
~*~*~
Continuing our chronological video series from Paper 6 (portal site here)
~*~*~
| Paper 7 - Relation of the Eternal Son to the Universe | |
~*~*~
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Find out for yourself......
Find out for yourself......
The Torah, New Testament, Koran, Upanishads, Sutras, Apocrypha, and whole array of various religious writings are chock full of wonderful stories, some more fanciful than others.
And logically so. How can you tell whether something is from 'God' or not? - you use your own reason, intelligence, cognitive powers, intuition and spiritual discernment of the 'content', 'spirit', 'principles', 'values' and 'meanings' contained within the writing. Does that seem reasonable to you? Isn't God a universal omnipresent reality?
Can you indicate where? Part 4 of the UB expands on what is contained in the canonical gospels and other sources as previously shared, so it contains a lot more additional info. plus any corrections if necessary. Until you read it you cant really say for sure can you.
pj
Find out for yourself......
The Torah, New Testament, Koran, Upanishads, Sutras, Apocrypha, and whole array of various religious writings are chock full of wonderful stories, some more fanciful than others.
And logically so. How can you tell whether something is from 'God' or not? - you use your own reason, intelligence, cognitive powers, intuition and spiritual discernment of the 'content', 'spirit', 'principles', 'values' and 'meanings' contained within the writing. Does that seem reasonable to you? Isn't God a universal omnipresent reality?
Can you indicate where? Part 4 of the UB expands on what is contained in the canonical gospels and other sources as previously shared, so it contains a lot more additional info. plus any corrections if necessary. Until you read it you cant really say for sure can you.
pj
The Urantia stories differ from the NT in many ways. First of all it is trinitarian. The trinity theory denies that the head of Christ is God and denies that it was the Holy Spirit who caused Mary to become pregnant.
Also the yearly dates do not agree with Gabriel's prophecy to Daniel about the seventy sets of years. The Urantia stories presume Jesus died on the sixth day of the week instead of him dying in the midst of the week (the fourth day) as Gabriel stipulated.
Also the Urantia stories deny Jesus' wealth. Jesus was wealthy from the time he was a toddler and he was able to retire at the age of thirty and yet support a sizeable entourage. Sure Jesus accepted money from those who wanted to give based on the premise that God loves a cheerful giver. He wanted those willing to give to be blessed.
And there are other areas of divergence from Scripture.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
correcting perspectives......
correcting perspectives......
This is all over the map, so not sure where to start. First of all, the Trinitarian concept of the 'Godhead' expounded in the UB (being the 'Paradise Trinity') does not deny that Jesus as a Creator-Son is subordinate to the Universal Father as all Creator-Sons and every other order of divine sons are,...within the 'cosmic heirarchy'. Also the UB teaches that Jesus was born as any other mortal in this realm, although he was still the Creator-Son from before his mortal incarnation, so that a 'virgin birth' is not 'necessary' to ensure or qualify the 'divinity-status' or 'potential' of Jesus. The birth of Jesus was of course orchestrated by divine providence, according to the allowances of both 'natural' and 'supernatural' laws, where such were appropriate to his mission.
Even outside of UB theology, a 'Trinitarian' concept does not necessarily deny the subordination of Jesus to the Father neither does it deny a 'virgin birth'...as a good % of traditional-orthodox Christians accept these as 'dogma'.
Which shows why a basic understanding of UB Theology is first essential before critiquing it. We see the proof here.
I don't quibble over these details on dates although they are interesting, - also consider that mathematical equations and numerical values are 'relative'. The UB does posit some specific dates for Jesus birth and a few other events, which may or may not be supported by other sources.
Can you show where the canonical gospel describe this 'wealth' that Jesus supposedly had, its source and its distribution? Otherwise, the UB account has been shared already here showing 'ample' funds being provided for Jesus and his apostles from the collective treasury of his company and their 'trusts'.
See above.
Have you read Part 4? As shared before, of course there are differences in the accounts, since the papers confirm, correct where needed and EXPAND extensively on the life and teachings of Jesus, every year of his life in fact. This observation doesn't prove or discount the record. Each must research and see if it holds up to its own integrity.
pj
correcting perspectives......
This is all over the map, so not sure where to start. First of all, the Trinitarian concept of the 'Godhead' expounded in the UB (being the 'Paradise Trinity') does not deny that Jesus as a Creator-Son is subordinate to the Universal Father as all Creator-Sons and every other order of divine sons are,...within the 'cosmic heirarchy'. Also the UB teaches that Jesus was born as any other mortal in this realm, although he was still the Creator-Son from before his mortal incarnation, so that a 'virgin birth' is not 'necessary' to ensure or qualify the 'divinity-status' or 'potential' of Jesus. The birth of Jesus was of course orchestrated by divine providence, according to the allowances of both 'natural' and 'supernatural' laws, where such were appropriate to his mission.
Even outside of UB theology, a 'Trinitarian' concept does not necessarily deny the subordination of Jesus to the Father neither does it deny a 'virgin birth'...as a good % of traditional-orthodox Christians accept these as 'dogma'.
Which shows why a basic understanding of UB Theology is first essential before critiquing it. We see the proof here.
I don't quibble over these details on dates although they are interesting, - also consider that mathematical equations and numerical values are 'relative'. The UB does posit some specific dates for Jesus birth and a few other events, which may or may not be supported by other sources.
Can you show where the canonical gospel describe this 'wealth' that Jesus supposedly had, its source and its distribution? Otherwise, the UB account has been shared already here showing 'ample' funds being provided for Jesus and his apostles from the collective treasury of his company and their 'trusts'.
See above.
Have you read Part 4? As shared before, of course there are differences in the accounts, since the papers confirm, correct where needed and EXPAND extensively on the life and teachings of Jesus, every year of his life in fact. This observation doesn't prove or discount the record. Each must research and see if it holds up to its own integrity.
pj
Yes, I saw that but it does say specifically that Jesus is equal with the Spirit, which we know from Luke is Jesus' father.
Jesus was born August 21, 7 B.C.
John was born March 25, 7 B.C.
(1512.4) 136:2.8 (Jesus was almost thirty-one and one-half years old when he was baptized. While Luke says that Jesus was baptized in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which would be A.D. 29 since Augustus died in A.D. 14, it should be recalled that Tiberius was coemperor with Augustus for two and one-half years before the death of Augustus, having had coins struck in his honor in October, A.D. 11. The fifteenth year of his actual rule was, therefore, this very year of A.D. 26, that of Jesus’ baptism. And this was also the year that Pontius Pilate began his rule as governor of Judea.)
John was born March 25, 7 B.C.
(1512.4) 136:2.8 (Jesus was almost thirty-one and one-half years old when he was baptized. While Luke says that Jesus was baptized in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which would be A.D. 29 since Augustus died in A.D. 14, it should be recalled that Tiberius was coemperor with Augustus for two and one-half years before the death of Augustus, having had coins struck in his honor in October, A.D. 11. The fifteenth year of his actual rule was, therefore, this very year of A.D. 26, that of Jesus’ baptism. And this was also the year that Pontius Pilate began his rule as governor of Judea.)
- Status