The Jesus Club

[iouae]

HalleluYah that you shared this time with us here...may He lead and guide and comfort...and using us...

Martin Luther desired to rid his church of the corruption extortion and exploitation it practiced by works it had created for its faithful to do.

Indulgences were merely a symptomatic result of a deeper evil...the fear of and angry God eager to throw someone into a hell full of eternal fire...you are NOT worthy...GUILTY etc...never good enough...unless you play by the church’s rules of course...bad theology indeed...but beneficial to the church

In his desire to free himself from this killer theology Luther swung into the other side of the road and into the other ditch of FAITH ALONE...as if there were not works prepared by Him for us to not only do to teach ourselves more of Him His Way but witness to others...indeed we wear HIS YOKE no other and certainly no yoke at all as if His Law is abolished...lawlessness...

Ok...so well again...May He lead and comfort...

Luther:

I don’t share the opinion that suicides are certainly to be damned. My reason is that they do not wish to kill themselves but are overcome by the power of the devil. They are like a man who is murdered in the woods by a robber. However, this ought not be taught to the common people, lest Satan be given an opportunity to cause slaughter, and I recommend that the popular custom be strictly adhered to according to which it [the suicide’s corpse] is not carried over the threshold, etc. Such persons do not die by free choice or by law, but our Lord God will dispatch them as he executes a person through a robber. Magistrates should treat them quite strictly, although it is not plain that their souls are damned. However, they are examples by which our Lord God wishes to show that the devil is powerful and also that we should be diligent in prayer. But for these examples, we would not fear God. Hence he must teach us in this way.

Maybe a good thread...and for grieving

A very good post Clefty.

I have not studied Luther much, but I feel Luther was spot on there.

 

[meshak]

It is surprisingly common among my Christian friends.

It is opposite in my experience.

They emphasize so much that what you do do not matter for salvation whereas Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end.

OSAS is one of those doctrines that disregard Jesus' teachings.

It is core of hypocrisy in the churches.

 

[drbrumley]

It is opposite in my experience.

They emphasize so much that what you do do not matter for salvation where as Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end.

OSAS is one of those doctrines that disregard Jesus' teachings.

It is core of hypocrisy in the churches.

There's the Meshak I know.....full of venom against most christians.

 

[clefty]

it is so typical.

Yup dont like the message they attack the messanger and twist their message...

John saw clearly:

“Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son Yahushua”

Kinda sums it up right there...maybe why its in the last book...the irony the last chapter even has in red letters “And behold I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every one according to his work.”...not just one’s belief but work...Paul said race until the end...and He said keep the commandments to ABIDE in His love...let your works glorify Him...duh

 

[drbrumley]

It is opposite in my experience.

They emphasize so much that what you do do not matter for salvation

That plainly is false.

whereas Jesus says to be faithful to Him until the end.

By His work thru us, a biblical concept you have yet to learn.

 

[meshak]

There's the Meshak I know.....full of venom against most christians.

What is venom is that you try so hard to keep the evil deeds silenced at Jesus' expense.

 

[clefty]

I don't want to throw any denomination under the bus by naming them.

But they don't sing "Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so".

It's not JW's or SDA's.

My mentor, the person who teaches me much of the time, believes that Jesus' standard is super high, and that only those who meet a certain (undefined) standard of perfection and works, will be saved. And I have not met a person who's views on religion I respect more. And even he does not believe he meets those expectations. And because the bar is so high in his mind, I feel he is almost discouraged from trying to measure up to it. It almost encourages giving up. I tell him, a Father loves his son - the son does not have to measure up every day for the Father to still call him "son" at the end of the day.

Was your friend familiar with this mentor?

 

[drbrumley]

What is venom is that you try so hard to keep the evil deeds silenced at Jesus' expense.

What evil deeds am I silencing?

 

[clefty]

When I tried to talk with you about this discourse it was apparently not even possible for you to understand that it does not end where you think it does just because you see a chapter break: and for that you accused me of adding to the passage because it did not fit your mindset, all the while mocking and not wanting to hear anything. The parable is not about the Pharisees at all, but the Sadducees, because in the perspective from which you speak, (and there is more than one perspective as well as many more than one point, despite what Iouae says), it speaks of Ananus and his sons, who were priests and of the sect of the Sadducees. Moreover Lazarus is the Hellenistic transliteration for Eleazar, for all intents and purposes they are the same name: Lazarus = Eleazar. Without this background you cannot possibly understand the discourse because you cannot see the plain surface message so as to understand the supernal which lies beneath. Lazarus is "Simon the Leper" and one of the disciples, even a Kohen. Ananus ben Seth had six sons including Caiaphas his son-in-law, (that's seven heads, O man, lol). As for the fuller meaning, (mortification just as Paul likewise teaches), I already tried to show you and you scoffed. However you just got through trying to tell me that you have already accomplished those things and found your soul. :chuckle:

They are sad u see because they dont believe in the resurrection...which this teaching is not about...as it is not to do with the afterlife but this life living together full of offenses but repenting and forgiving...

 

[meshak]

Yup dont like the message they attack the messanger and twist their message...

John saw clearly:

“Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF His Son Yahushua”

Kinda sums it up right there...maybe why its in the last book...the irony they last chapter has in red letters “And behold I am coming quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every one according to his work.”...not just one’s belief but work...Paul said race until the end...He said keep the commandments to ABIDE in His love...

They dismiss unpopular teaching of Jesus. So they try to silence who speak the whole truth of Jesus' teachings.

 

[iouae]

Was your friend familiar with this mentor?

No.

They are almost at opposite extremes. The one ran super hard till he burned out, and the other feels the race is too hard, and does not even want to enter the race competitively.

One can have a brilliant understanding of the Bible, without even running the race seriously.

Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

We have to diligently seek Him, not perfectly seek Him.
We have to have faith that we please Him.

 

[meshak]

What evil deeds am I silencing?

You are trying to silence by dismissing Jesus' word.

that is evil.

 

[drbrumley]

You are trying to silence by dismissing Jesus' word.

that is evil.

specifics please?

 

[glorydaz]

At the last trump the dead SHALL BE RAISED - clearly showing that they are not yet raised from the dead.

When did they get eternal life? They have the promise of it in their earthly walk (the ernest) and they cash in this ernest and receive full payment of eternal life, in the resurrection, at the last trump.

Full payment? We receive eternal life when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. We merely await the redemption of our body. Your error is in conflating the two.

Romans 8:22-23 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.​

 

[meshak]

specifics please?

I will not take your usual bating game.

You don't seem to know what I am talking about which is so convenient for your advantage.

 

[drbrumley]

I will not take your usual bating game.

You don't seem to know what I am talking about which is so convenient for your advantage.

well, I don't live inside your head meshak. So no, I don't know what your talking about therefore I cannot speak to what commands of Jesus your referring to. Everything is baiting to you.

 

[meshak]

well, I don't live inside your head meshak. So no, I don't know what your talking about therefore I cannot speak to what commands of Jesus your referring to. Everything is baiting to you.

You have done that many many times.

I am not born yesterday, dear.

 

[clefty]

No.

They are almost at opposite extremes. The one ran super hard till he burned out, and the other feels the race is too hard, and does not even want to enter the race competitively.

One can have a brilliant understanding of the Bible, without even running the race seriously.

Satan is genius in counterfeiting all...comfort hope peace joy...

In Colossians Paul speaks of “let no man rob you of your reward”...indeed let the shadows point the way...may this hold true now for you

Indeed the brighter the light the darker the shadows...

 

[drbrumley]

You have done that many many times.

I am not born yesterday, dear.

Actually I haven't so there is that....

well, I don't live inside your head meshak. So no, I don't know what your talking about therefore I cannot speak to what commands of Jesus your referring to.

 

[iouae]

Full payment? We receive eternal life when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. We merely await the redemption of our body. Your error is in conflating the two.

Romans 8:22-23 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.​

Is that different to what I wrote saying "When did they get eternal life? They have the promise of it in their earthly walk (the ernest) and they cash in this ernest and receive full payment of eternal life, in the resurrection, at the last trump."