c.moore,
My hang up is that you put this baptism before believing , and trusting Jesus as their salvation,and becoming disciples , and sons and daughter before the baptismal and is completly backwards.
You keep putting the cart before the horses, and that can`t work.
Show me
one post where I put baptism before belief. Just one will do. I emphasize baptism because you
try to take it out of the requirements for salvation that Jesus laid out in Mark 16:16. Jesus says that whoever
believes and is
baptized will be saved. It takes BOTH belief and baptism, and I have NEVER put baptism before belief. I've often said takes both belief AND baptism.
A question is ask about the Holy Ghost but notice they are already believer, because they believed which is pass tence, so also the order of getting saved was first believing not baptism
Wrong. I want you to explain to me how one is supposedly saved without dying with Christ. How can one be saved while he is still alive to sin and dead to God? Dying to sin (being freed from sin) and being alive to God are attributed to a believer
when they are baptized (Romans 6:1-11),
not before baptism. It those
who die with Christ through baptism who will live with Christ (2 Tim. 2:11). Those people in Acts 19:1-5 didn't die with Christ
and put away their old man of sin, making them alive to God and dead to sin,
UNTIL they were baptized in the name of the Lord.
You have YET to show me where it says that water baptism in the name of the Lord is for the edification of other Christians. Funny how the apostle Peter agrees with me that it's for the REMISSION OF SINS (Acts 2:38). C'mon c.moore, where the scripture that shows that baptism is for the edification of other Christians. How long will you duck this question?
Quote c.moore
First of all in this circumstance these believed first , look in verse43 and 45 in Acts 10 .
So this time some people believed and was filled with the Holy Ghost before they got wet in the name of the LOrd.
Again, I don't put baptism before belief. I've NEVER done that. I know that belief comes first because it wouldn't make sense to be baptized into something that you don't believe in.
Also, I've already shown you that the that the falling of the HS does not happen to
every believer upon hearing the gospel as it did to the Gentiles in Acts 10:44. Acts 8:5-16 shows this. Spirit baptism is NOT the baptism commanded of us. Baptism in the name of the Lord is,
which is why the Gentiles in Acts 10:44 were commanded to be batptized in the name of the Lord AFTER the HS fell upon them.
So the hang up I have is your backward teaching , that first water baptism and then you believe and get saved
I have never, EVER said this. I've just been showing that baptism is necessary for salvation just like belief is. I wouldn't emphasize baptism so much if people would only accept what Jesus clearly said:
"He who believes and is baptized will be saved." Of COURSE belief comes before baptism.
It wouldn't make sense to get baptized into something you don't believe in. 
I have NEVER taught that baptism comes before belief.
You keep putting the cart before the horses, and that can`t work.
No, you just aren't paying close enough attention to what I've been trying to tell you.
The next thing which you interpretate wrong is this verse John 3:5 , you think water in this verse is your water baptismal for the Lord, but the water is the word of God
It is
you who has it wrong. This IS speaking of water baptism. Jesus is answering how one is reborn. When you read Romans 6, which is speaking of BAPTISM, it spells out that when one is baptized, they crucify their old man of sin and walk
in the newness of life. If somebody is walking in the NEWNESS of LIFE, they are walking in a NEW LIFE - being REBORN, just as Jesus is speaking about.
And if you are going to say that Romans 6 isn't speaking about WATER baptism, then you need to explain why you
tried to use Romans 6:5 to show that WATER baptism is an outward show of faith for other Christians. Also you would need to explain why Paul would preach baptism in the name of the Lord, which uses water (Acts 10:47-48), and then say in Romans 6 that Spirit baptism is what makes us alive to God
when Spirit baptism was never commanded of us. Why was the eucnuch baptized in WATER after being preached Jesus in Acts 8:38?
You always say I have no scriptures to back up what I say
That's because you
don't have scriptures to back up certain things you say. Where is the scripture that says baptism is for the edification of other Christians?
WHERE? I and the apostle Peter say it's for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Where's your scripture?!
You said in your previous post that a person dies with Christ when they accept Jesus,
and not in any baptism. I showed you scriptures that literally SPELLS OUT that a person dies with Christ through
baptism (Romans 6:4),
and then I asked you to provide scripture that shows that we die with Christ by another means than baptism. Your response?
A big nothing. So, this yet ANOTHER incident
where you can't back your man-made doctrine with scripture.
There is one thing I'd like to clarify and correct of myself. I said in my earlier posts that baptism is symbolic of what is actually happening to the believer upon being baptized. That can make it sound like what happens so the believer is symbolic, and that's not what I was trying to communicate.
Baptism is symbolic of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. It has to be symbolic because we are baptized into His death, yet we aren't Christ and can't go through His actual death, burial, and resurrection. That being said, what happens to the believer upon the point of baptism is
not symbolic, but actual and literal. So, in Romans 6:4-11 says that he who is united in the likeness of His death, through baptism, will put away his old man of sin and walk in the newness of life, being alive to God and dead to sin. This is what baptism
does for us.
IF we have died with Christ, we shall also live with Christ (2 Tim. 2:11).
