ECT The Gospel Proper

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Danoh

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turbosixx said:
Sorry I'm no fun. It's not a day at the park being called all kind of names and being looked down upon either. I stick with it because I care.
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Depends on where you CHOOSE TO look at such things from.

Exactly why I so often cite Romans 5:6-8.

Because it is where I have CHOSEN TO look at ALL such things from.

Just a matter of CHOOSING TO focus on how that...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

And not only on that, but also, on how that...

5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Which then results in, allows, and or enables the following, come our way, whatever may...

5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Why can we do that?

Because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

The love of God?

This here...

5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Focus on that, when nonsense of life and or of people comes from our way, and their would be tribulation will result in...patience, etc.

2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God,"

In what things?

The passages then go into what said all things are...

"in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses, 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings; 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left, 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Because Romans 5:6-8.
 
JudgeRightly

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drbrumley said:
Define miracle as I would bet dollars to donuts we define it differently.
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Something that defies all laws of the universe, something "supernatural" occurring in the natural universe, something that fosters an unbelief in God, something which has no logical explanation.
 
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Rosenritter said:
Matthew 5:43-45 KJV
(43) Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
(44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
(45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

John 13:34 KJV
(34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Then can we agree that these commandments (above) are universal in application, that these words of Christ are intended for all who hear?
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In one sense.
 
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turbosixx said:
Spiritual gifts are given by the laying of apostles hands.
Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you—

Those who had been given Spiritual gifts could not impart them. Philip had them but the apostles had to come down to give them.
Acts 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ. 6 And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip, when they heard him and saw the signs that he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying out with a loud voice, came out of many who had them, and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed.
The apostles come down and lay hands.
Acts 8:17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,

Since they come from the apostles hands and could not be transferred, it agrees with Paul's comments here.
1 Cor. 13:8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

That is my understanding. The gifts were to confirm the word and to help establish the growing church until all the word was revealed.
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God can perform miracles any time that He likes.
 
JudgeRightly

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Right Divider said:
What about love your enemy?
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God (nor man, for that matter) is not a simple being, capable of only one emotion or action at a time.

Why do you think it is impossible for God to both love and hate someone simultaneously?
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

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JudgeRightly said:
Something that defies all laws of the universe, something "supernatural" occurring in the natural universe, something that fosters an unbelief in God, something which has no logical explanation.
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"something that fosters an unbelief in God." Um not sure why you included this particular nugget. This is something Enyart would say.
 
Idolater

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turbosixx said:
that is not what the Catholic church teaches or practices
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Yes it is.
turbosixx said:
Before Philip baptized the eunuch, he was asked if he believed.
Acts 8:36 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
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So what.
turbosixx said:
The Catholic church doesn't practice what the bible teaches.
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Yes, she does.
turbosixx said:
Who changed it?
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Supra.

We are beginning to go around in circles now. Because I answer your concerns/challenges, and then you forget, and ask/challenge the same things again. So I think we're probably done wrt this discussion.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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JudgeRightly said:
So does God hate just the hands of the one who does evil?

Or does it make more sense that He hates the one who controls those hands?
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It makes sense that God hates the evil, that he laid down his life for us while we were enemies and at enmity with God, and is willing that all men should come to a knowledge of the truth. God doesn't have hatred for his creation, he is willing to forgive and redeem. We are to love our enemies so that we might be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. This is a love approaching the love of God, not superior to it.

Would you be so kind as to provide an example of a miracle that happens today?

No, I mean that all miracles have ceased for the time being.
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Spoiler
I was once in a very bad situation where there was no money for immediate food. I asked for help at least so my pets would not starve. A couple days later a stranger came and delivered a check written "from God" (her note) and apologized for not having brought it the couple days earlier when she had been told in a dream (the couple days earlier coincided with the prayer.) Does that count as a miracle or is that a coincidence that we expect to happen naturally from time to time?

I could list several examples even limited to my personal experience, but what would be gained by sharing that with someone who would deny anything and everything out of hand for lack of faith or hardheadedness or otherwise? I think it would be very foolish to limit God as to what or how he is allowed to relate to and deal with his Creation. It also seems unwise to not give credit to God for what he has done.
 
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Rosenritter

Rosenritter

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Rosenritter said:
Matthew 5:43-45 KJV
(43) Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
(44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
(45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

John 13:34 KJV
(34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Then can we agree that these commandments (above) are universal in application, that these words of Christ are intended for all who hear?
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Right Divider said:
In one sense.
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Is it my imagination or do you sound somewhat grudging? Does "love thy enemy" and "love one another" apply universally to everyone, as a commandment to all that hear, or not?
 
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