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God hates evil thoughts and actions, not the one doing them.
ECT The Gospel Proper
- Thread starter Clete
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I've done that many times... but you always have an "excuse".
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Provide YOUR scriptural support that miracles CANNOT happen today.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I already said that.
The Church does not teach that a baptized person does not need to believe the Gospel---but that we all Do need to believe the Gospel. Baptism doesn't substitute for faith, baptism goes together with faith.
Try reading the post of the person I was replying to.
It's not that they cannot happen.
It's that they do not.
We see many periods in the Bible where God did no miracles for long periods of time.
Why is it so hard to believe that the past 1900 years is just another one of those periods?
A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. - Proverbs 6:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs6:19&version=NKJV
The Bible disagrees with you.
turbosixx
New member
Sorry I'm no fun. It's not a day at the park being called all kind of names and being looked down upon either. I stick with it because I care.
turbosixx
New member
turbosixx
New member
Spiritual gifts are given by the laying of apostles hands.
Acts 8:18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to strengthen you—
Those who had been given Spiritual gifts could not impart them. Philip had them but the apostles had to come down to give them.
Acts 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ. 6 And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip, when they heard him and saw the signs that he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying out with a loud voice, came out of many who had them, and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed.
The apostles come down and lay hands.
Acts 8:17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
Since they come from the apostles hands and could not be transferred, it agrees with Paul's comments here.
1 Cor. 13:8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
That is my understanding. The gifts were to confirm the word and to help establish the growing church until all the word was revealed.
turbosixx
New member
I believe that is the only real concern. If I understand your position correctly, then I'm not in any danger. I believed what y'all have agreed upon as the "gospel proper" with all my heart many many years ago. According to what I've repeatedly read, and debated against, the moment I believed I was added to the BOC and there is nothing that can take that away, OSAS. All my sins are forgiven past and future and I can't loose my salvation. If now say I can loose my salvation then, do you really believe what you preach?
turbosixx
New member
Please expand on this. I will once again give you my take.
Was it sin for those believing Israelites to practice things they had been taught for over a thousand years?
Paul practiced some of those things.
Acts 18:18 After this, Paul stayed many days longer and then took leave of the brothers and set sail for Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila. At Cenchreae he had cut his hair, for he was under a vow.
Show me a vow in the gospel.
Acts 16:3 Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.
Please show me where the 12 preached or practiced observance of the law after Pentecost.
turbosixx
New member
I agree with this statement but that is not what the Catholic church teaches or practices. When an infant is baptized, that is 1) baptism without faith 2) baptism without belief.
Before Philip baptized the eunuch, he was asked if he believed.
Acts 8:36 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
Belief and baptism go together in order to receive the Holy Spirit. That is all we see stated and practiced in scripture. The Catholic church doesn't practice what the bible teaches. Who changed it?
turbosixx
New member
This is probably gets me the most. I wasn't the one who said "believes and is baptized will be saved". Our Lord and Savior did. Not only did Jesus say it but "your" apostle practiced EXACTLY that, repeatedly. That goes against what you are preaching and agrees with Jesus and the 12.
WHY in the world would Paul baptize believers if 1) he was not sent to 2) it's not part of "his" gospel. WHY, what possible reason to go against the truth? Please provide scriptural support.
Are there other kinds of baptisms in the Bible besides water?
turbosixx
New member
Why would you bring up other baptisms? Jesus says "believes and is baptized will be saved". And we see believers doing just that. Are you saying it's optional which one you want?
turbosixx
New member
So that is your justification to do away with baptism?
drbrumley
Well-known member
Who said Im doing away with it? And how about answer the question...
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