The Gospel Of Thomas

[unknown]

Luke 8:9-18 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. 16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. 17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

I included what came after these words because we have already seen them in another form already. "Take heed therefore how ye hear" is to me like saying, " I am not speaking in a literal/carnal way of material possessions". I see a separating going on in the world (doesn't everybody?) It's been that way since Babel but it's accelerating at a faster rate today. The Truth will be with those who remain; that is the purpose of the separation. Sorry if I'm not clear on this; there is more to it and I'm trying to be brief.

 

[JosephR]

we will prolly all agree at the first take on this that the farmer is Jesus or the Prophets spreading truth and faith,or Gods word and the Gospel.

Then we see there are 4 categories in which the seed fell,

On the road and birds ate it

On rocky ground and never took root

Among weeds.And was starved.

And on fertile ground.And produced good fruit.

I personally have been in 3 of these categories.And a fourth has been at my backstep biting the whole way.And I feel I have been givin ample planting times in my life,more then I feel I deserve but out of grace the Creator has seen fit to work this field I call my life and I am very grateful.

The first for me is rocky ground,as in I did not have the faith or knowledge to take it.Or interest as I was in my own world and serving myself.

The second is the road, as I see it the seed was not wasted here,as the birds did eat. In the Bible it says.The birds do not worry about where there food comes from,see scripture below. I feel I have picked up here and there on seeds left for others and it did feed me,and I gained from there loss.. I do it here on TOL all the time,when a gift,words are givin to another and they reject yet I take it in and gain from it. And all through life this happens. The Father is not very wasteful.

Mat 6-26
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.

The fourth is where I hope I am now,fertile,tilled ground ready to receive good seed and produce good grain for the Father to harvest.

The other of coarse is the weeds we must all beware of, this I take it is Sin and those who would see you fail and perish for there own egotistical and demonic ways... who wants to go to hell alone? or they out right serve against the Creator.. these weeds and wolves must be watched for and uprooted all through our lives.

To me this is what this passage means.

 

[Pnevma]

I’d second all that, and only add that it always struck me as so generous.

We always get another chance if the previous seed was lost.
They keep falling.

 

[JosephR]

I’d second all that, and only add that it always struck me as so generous.

We always get another chance if the previous seed was lost.
They keep falling.

OK cool,other then the speration unknown was talking about I see no reason to not move on to next verse.

 

[JosephR]

Jesus said, “I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes”.


Compare and correspond to Matthew 10:34

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

 

[unknown]

OK cool,other then the speration unknown was talking about I see no reason to not move on to next verse.

The seperation is in;

Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

What is being "given and taken" here is Wisdom and understanding; Wisdom is given and understanding becomes corrected by it. Some people in this world today "have" and some don't. I see that separation increasing. This is so because those that have will need a receiver for what they have to bestow. simple huh?

We are only blessed to be a blessing to others. In the thread about serving God, you had the right answer first. We serve God by bestowing to others what He bestows to us. Those with a literal understanding don't know why they come here and do what they do. They had an experience and want to tell somebody how good they feel about it. Problem comes when we get off on all the little side paths; we lose sight of the goal because we are restricted to a literal understanding (each to his own degree).

Greater evil is done in the world so that greater good can be brought forth. it's the matter of the small and large states that Kabbalah explains. Natural disasters and things like that are called "a diminishing of the soul"; they make mankind seek The Creator. We have not learned to love one another and things could get real ugly before we do.

 

[JosephR]

The seperation is in;

What is being "given and taken" here is Wisdom and understanding; Wisdom is given and understanding becomes corrected by it. Some people in this world today "have" and some don't. I see that separation increasing. This is so because those that have will need a receiver for what they have to bestow. simple huh?

We are only blessed to be a blessing to others. In the thread about serving God, you had the right answer first. We serve God by bestowing to others what He bestows to us. Those with a literal understanding don't know why they come here and do what they do. They had an experience and want to tell somebody how good they feel about it. Problem comes when we get off on all the little side paths; we lose sight of the goal because we are restricted to a literal understanding (each to his own degree).

Greater evil is done in the world so that greater good can be brought forth. it's the matter of the small and large states that Kabbalah explains. Natural disasters and things like that are called "a diminishing of the soul"; they make mankind seek The Creator. We have not learned to love one another and things could get real ugly before we do.

That speaks alot tome on many different levels,it seems true we have been given all we need in life, We have instinct to survive,and curiosity to want to do more then survive,,to live on,yet to really live,
In the event of life endangering instances the first kickes in,but in the wake of the event, the second.
It seems we have been given all the tools to grow and be prosperous. If you look at life for what it is and how fragile and meaningless it is in the bigger picture,sure it has great meaning but it is a mere stepping stone of many.

We think life is so precious it must be guarded at all cost but in the process of doing that if we listen to our soul we learn and grow much more beyond mere survival and continuation of the human race.

 

[unknown]

That speaks alot tome on many different levels,it seems true we have been given all we need in life, We have instinct to survive,and curiosity to want to do more then survive,,to live on,yet to really live,
In the event of life endangering instances the first kickes in,but in the wake of the event, the second.
It seems we have been given all the tools to grow and be prosperous. If you look at life for what it is and how fragile and meaningless it is in the bigger picture,sure it has great meaning but it is a mere stepping stone of many.

We think life is so precious it must be guarded at all cost but in the process of doing that if we listen to our soul we learn and grow much more beyond mere survival and continuation of the human race.

Many think "life" means the body but every body dies.

Jesus said, “I have cast fire upon the world, and see, I am guarding it until it blazes”.

that's pretty much what I have been talking about. I see the fire here as a purifying one and believe it will consume all of creation in the end.

 

[Pnevma]

that's pretty much what I have been talking about. I see the fire here as a purifying one and believe it will consume all of creation in the end.

I see it more as starting a passion. And He waits until it becomes fierce and finally all consuming.

I can’t see an end to creation, unless I misunderstand your concept of creation.

Doesn’t our creation end each time we die (bodily), and begin again when we are born?

 

[JosephR]

I see it more as starting a passion. And He waits until it becomes fierce and finally all consuming.

I can’t see an end to creation, unless I misunderstand your concept of creation.

Doesn’t our creation end each time we die (bodily), and begin again when we are born?

The Toaist as I understand it re incarnates continually..

So I am not the same person I was 5 mins ago,maybe not a whole new creation,but a different being from what I was then..

So to them you re incarnate constantly.And this is just personal outlook but I think the Creator may restart us every so often.
Like the tower of Babel, I wouldn't think that was the first time He set us back in time ,technologically speaking.

And I agree on the passion. He set forth a truth,and we should have passion for it untill it consumes us.

 

[JosephR]

on to 11 then

Jesus said, “This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

 

[Pnevma]

on to 11 then

Jesus said, “This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

This is a biggie
I think I’ve recounted my OBE before, so I’ll let others respond.

Evening mealtime here, so I’ll try to catch up tomorrow (which is probably before first light where you are).

 

[unknown]

I see it more as starting a passion. And He waits until it becomes fierce and finally all consuming.

I can’t see an end to creation, unless I misunderstand your concept of creation.

Doesn’t our creation end each time we die (bodily), and begin again when we are born?

by "the end", I mean the end of all our corrections.

 

[Pnevma]

by "the end", I mean the end of all our corrections.

Ahh. Ok
How do you feel about 11 ?

 

[unknown]

on to 11 then

Jesus said, “This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

Again the language used by The Coptic Gnostics here is foreign to me. I'm sure freelight can explain it better from that view. When I say language I mean the particular words that were used in the teaching common to the group.

Kabbalists use the language of branches, meaning that the words of this world are the branch level (thus a literal understanding exists) and they describe the roots in the spiritual level. The word "light" heard in the ear of a Kabbalist means The Creator. Light is the word in this world that closet describes certain attributes. When we examine light (were getting to the quantum level btw) we see how it radiates in all directions; the creator is like that. We see what was hidden from us in the darkness becomes visible in the light. And so on; each word is a teaching in itself. Moses, Mt Sinai, Going to the top and the other words of that story all mean something very specific to the Kabbalist. Moses means "drawn out" (it is explained in the story what his name means). Mt Sinai means two things in the language of branches; because it is Mt it is a condition of our state of being; this applies to all "lands" spoken of such as Egypt being a state of bondage. Sinai means hatred. So those that are drawn out by The Creator are to rise above their state of hatred to receive wisdom from The Creator. This is not clear at the "branch" level of understanding because the carnal mind perceives that the text is speaking of this world; it is only using the language of this world to describe the spiritual world.

In Kabbalistc terms Heaven and Earth are places/lands, that means they are states of being. Heaven is bestowal and Earth is reception, As in; In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. Only one force moves all of creation; the thought of creation itself. To bestow. Every thing that exists is considered reception. As soon as God had the thought to bestow, a vessel came into to being to receive. In the beginning these two were connected directly together, they were as one. In order to fulfill the thought of creation they were purposefully separated. That is the Creator and the creature moved farther and farther apart in qualities. This is because the thought of creation, according to the Kabbalists, states that The Creator had a desire to create a creature and fill it with unbounded delight. "Unbounded" is so that the greatest delight is possible. Adam HaRishon (the first man) was separated from The Creator. His spiritual and physical genetics have been broken up into billions of pieces. Only one "soul" was created, only one soul exists. We are all part of the same soul. This is what Jesus was talking about when he said no one has ascended into heaven except he that came down from heaven, the son of man. He was speaking of ben Adam/son of man (all of us). This was the ladder that Jacob saw in a dream.

 

[thatlldopig]

Hi, sorry to join the conversation so late. It is tough to know where to start. I believe that Thomas is fully Christian and written in the genre of biblical "dark saying" or riddle. For instance:

Jesus said that man does not live by bread alone, but 'by every word which proceeds from the mouth of God'. When he fed bread, he also fed fish. He said that the bread was his body which was given for us, that is symbolic of the cross. This leaves fish to represent 'every word'.

So when Thomas speaks of throwing all the small fish back and keeping the largest, it is the same teaching that all the law (word) is summarized in One greatest commandment, to love God.

It is a a riddle to show how to solve the riddles of the Bible. I know some say "there are no riddles, no hidden meaning".

So lets take the mustard seed. Is it the smallest seed or not? Wrong question. It is a riddle. Jesus, the seed of the woman, was the least of all the seed because he served us all. The herbs were given to man to eat, and the greatest thing we can eat is the body of Christ. He is the greatest herb. The tree is naturally the cross. Those who live in the spirit (air) rest in the cross.

It is riddle. Thomas is trying to teach us to read it.

And I just love Mary needing to become a man. But see Jeremiah 30.6 first. He says that all men will become pregnant. It is riddle.

Paul says the woman was deceived. As such the female represents those who don't see clearly, or the blind. Her name means 'rebellious'. The rebellious one who is blind must be made male (not blind). This happens by Jesus teaching her.

There is another extra-biblical riddle that is related. It suggests that men must become virgins.

Thomas says the rebellious ones who don't understand must understand (the blind must see). Then the other says those who see (men) must become the bride of Christ. And finally, Jeremiah says the bride of Christ, who understands, must be fruitful and multiply. Paul says the bride is fruitful by the fruit of the Spirit. The bride multiplies, though it is a virgin by evangelism.

The purpose of Thomas's Mary riddle is to teach us to understand Jeremiah.

 

[JosephR]

Hi, sorry to join the conversation so late. It is tough to know where to start. I believe that Thomas is fully Christian and written in the genre of biblical "dark saying" or riddle. For instance:

Jesus said that man does not live by bread alone, but 'by every word which proceeds from the mouth of God'. When he fed bread, he also fed fish. He said that the bread was his body which was given for us, that is symbolic of the cross. This leaves fish to represent 'every word'.

So when Thomas speaks of throwing all the small fish back and keeping the largest, it is the same teaching that all the law (word) is summarized in One greatest commandment, to love God.

It is a a riddle to show how to solve the riddles of the Bible. I know some say "there are no riddles, no hidden meaning".

So lets take the mustard seed. Is it the smallest seed or not? Wrong question. It is a riddle. Jesus, the seed of the woman, was the least of all the seed because he served us all. The herbs were given to man to eat, and the greatest thing we can eat is the body of Christ. He is the greatest herb. The tree is naturally the cross. Those who live in the spirit (air) rest in the cross.

It is riddle. Thomas is trying to teach us to read it.

And I just love Mary needing to become a man. But see Jeremiah 30.6 first. He says that all men will become pregnant. It is riddle.

Paul says the woman was deceived. As such the female represents those who don't see clearly, or the blind. Her name means 'rebellious'. The rebellious one who is blind must be made male (not blind). This happens by Jesus teaching her.

There is another extra-biblical riddle that is related. It suggests that men must become virgins.

Thomas says the rebellious ones who don't understand must understand (the blind must see). Then the other says those who see (men) must become the bride of Christ. And finally, Jeremiah says the bride of Christ, who understands, must be fruitful and multiply. Paul says the bride is fruitful by the fruit of the Spirit. The bride multiplies, though it is a virgin by evangelism.

The purpose of Thomas's Mary riddle is to teach us to understand Jeremiah.

Welcome to the thread. I very much enjoy reading your response,, and am still going over it and chewing on it...

Hope you stick around

 

[Angel4Truth]

And I just love Mary needing to become a man. But see Jeremiah 30.6 first. He says that all men will become pregnant. It is riddle.

Thats not what its saying all. Anyone can read the entire chapter and clearly see that is not what its saying in any way.

 

[JosephR]

Thats not what its saying all. Anyone can read the entire chapter and clearly see that is not what its saying in any way.

then please tell me what it means..

 

[Angel4Truth]

then please tell me what it means..

please first show me where it says a man will be pregnant.