ECT The "Gospel" at Luke 9:6

[Jerry Shugart]

But then, Jerry, you'd be stuck with one isolated (English) reference to testament when the whole letter there is about us being in the new covenant, which is actually eternal, though 'new' to us. If there is a testament/will part to it, it is that Christ is to be explained all over the world, in remembrance.

All I need to prove my point that the New Covenant promised to the house of Israel and the house of Judah remains in the future is this prophecy:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. So therefore, in the future those who will make up both houses will be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Since there has never been a time when all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob of both houses have had their sins forgiven we can know that the fulfillment of the New Covenant promised to both of those houses remain in the FUTURE!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Show them in the NT.

Of course you will not believe what Paul said here when he is referring to the prophecy found at Jeremiah 31:31-34:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

 

[Interplanner]

Of course you will not believe what Paul said here when he is referring to the prophecy found at Jeremiah 31:31-34:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

That's not our future. that is the method or channel as to how 'all Israel' (the new one) is formed. It's all the people who believe that Gospel, the one gospel. None of the language here is about a future (to us) Davidic theocracy. Because the terms are defined by Paul, and saved is never a Davidic theocracy that is 'unfinished business' with Judaism which God owes to Israel. Never.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

None of the language here is about a future (to us) Davidic theocracy. Because the terms are defined by Paul, and saved is never a Davidic theocracy that is 'unfinished business' with Judaism which God owes to Israel. Never.

So you do not think that a future Davidic theoracy remains in the future?

The Apostles were with the resurrected Christ for forty days while He tutored them on the things concerning the kingdom (Acts 1:3). And after receiving this teaching they expected that at some point in time the Davidic kingdom would be restored to Israel, asking Him the following:

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).​

If they were wrong for expecting that the kingdom would be restored to Israel then He certainly would have corrected them, especially since He was about to send them out unto the world to preach the "gospel of the kingdom." He did not correct them but instead told them that they were not tom know the time when it would happen (Acts 1:7).

If the restoration of the Davidic theocracy will never happen then it would make absolutely no sense for the Lord Jesus to say anything to the Apostles in regard to the timing of it happening.

Since I have no evidence that you were personally tutored by the Lord Jesus about the Davidic kingdom then I will have to believe that the Apostles were right for expecting that the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

 

[Interplanner]

So you do not think that a future Davidic theoracy remains in the future?

The Apostles were with the resurrected Christ for forty days while He tutored them on the things concerning the kingdom (Acts 1:3). And after receiving this teaching they expected that at some point in time the Davidic kingdom would be restored to Israel, asking Him the following:

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).​

If they were wrong for expecting that the kingdom would be restored to Israel then He certainly would have corrected them, especially since He was about to send them out unto the world to preach the "gospel of the kingdom." He did not correct them but instead told them that they were not tom know the time when it would happen (Acts 1:7).

If the restoration of the Davidic theocracy will never happen then it would make absolutely no sense for the Lord Jesus to say anything to the Apostles in regard to the timing of it happening.

Since I have no evidence that you were personally tutored by the Lord Jesus about the Davidic kingdom then I will have to believe that the Apostles were right for expecting that the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

You're good at pasting!

So go read the response that is already there at the other thread. You are forcing yourself on the text. The power He wanted them to have in his kingdom was the power to preach and proclaim which came by the Spirit shortly. It never was going to be about a David theocracy, and even David is quoted in 2:30,31 as saying the enthronement he foresaw was the resurrection of Christ. That is to be preached to all mankind and that is the kingdom or reign of Christ and its power. That is the direction that Acts takes and runs.

 

[john w]

So you do not think that a future Davidic theoracy remains in the future?

The Apostles were with the resurrected Christ for forty days while He tutored them on the things concerning the kingdom (Acts 1:3). And after receiving this teaching they expected that at some point in time the Davidic kingdom would be restored to Israel, asking Him the following:

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).​

If they were wrong for expecting that the kingdom would be restored to Israel then He certainly would have corrected them, especially since He was about to send them out unto the world to preach the "gospel of the kingdom." He did not correct them but instead told them that they were not tom know the time when it would happen (Acts 1:7).

If the restoration of the Davidic theocracy will never happen then it would make absolutely no sense for the Lord Jesus to say anything to the Apostles in regard to the timing of it happening.

Since I have no evidence that you were personally tutored by the Lord Jesus about the Davidic kingdom then I will have to believe that the Apostles were right for expecting that the kingdom will be restored to Israel.

The NC has been ratified, but not enacted, and thus both the physical blessings associated with the NC, "as the days of heaven upon the earth"(Deut. 11:21 KJV), the restoration of the David Kingdom, on earth, with the Lord Jesus Christ ruling with an iron hand, and the "little flock" believing remnant of the nation of Israel, His "elect" to service, serving as His kingdom of priests, ministers, witnesses....and the spiritual, living in resurrected bodies, with the ability to "not sin," awaits a future date-and with the believing remnant- not the boc.

"By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." Hebrews 7:22 KJV

And just why is the Lord Jesus Christ right now the surety, i.e., guarantee, of a better covenant? He guarantees it only because the Lord Jesus Christ has not yet enacted the better covenant. If He had already enacted it, no need for a guarantee would exist.

Get it?

Hebrews 8:6-This contrasts the OC, given through the "mediator" Moses, with the new one coming through the Lord Jesus Christ. The better covenant stands upon better promises. The Lord Jesus Christ mediates the better covenant in the heavenly throne room(Hebrews 12:22-44 KJV). Once He enacts it, He will no longer be the mediator, but rather the enactor of the NC.

As STP pointed out many times, just as the enactment of the Mosaic Covenant with the children of Israel did not occur until Moses came down from the mountain, so Christ's return apart from sin for salvation of Israel(Hebrews 8:8-13 KJV, Romans 11:26-32 KJV). While Moses was on the mount, mediating the covenant, the Israelites were in unbelief, as it is today. The LORD God desired to cast them off from His sight. However, Moses interceded for them(obviously, Moses as a type of Christ), and established the covenant with the nation Israel after a second attempt. The covenant was ratified while Moses was on the mount, Exodus 19:3-24:3 KJV, but enactment did not happen until Moses descended=2nd coming from that mount, and the people agreed to the covenant, Exodus 24:3 KJV, Exodus 24:7 KJV.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

MADS champion, Les Feldick,

:chuckle:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

2Cor 12:2 (AKJV/PCE)​

(12:2) I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. ​

If there is a "third heaven" are there not two other heavens?

Is there some grammar trick that we need to know to "interp" this?

IP the Great Genius has a serious problem of unbelief.

 

[john w]

It's all the people who believe that Gospel, the one gospel.

Is that "the one gospel," "that Gospel," of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, that your saint Judas preached, per the topic of this thread.....Luke 9:6 KJV?


Go on record, and assert that your saint Judas preached:

"Hey, you all!!! Good news!!!! The Master is going to die for our sins...be buried...raised again, for our justification!!!! Believe this good news, to be saved!!! I did, and I now have struck it rich in the silver market!!!!! Puh raaaayyyzzz Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd!!!!"


Not a peep.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Is that "the one gospel," "that Gospel," of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, that your saint Judas preached, per the topic of this thread.....Luke 9:6 KJV?


Go on record, and assert that your saint Judas preached:

"Hey, you all!!! Good news!!!! The Master is going to die for our sins...be buried...raised again, for our justification!!!! Believe this good news, to be saved!!! I did, and I now have struck it rich in the silver market!!!!! Puh raaaayyyzzz Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd!!!!"


Not a peep.

He's scouring his "liberry" for a commentary that addresses this.

 

[john w]

He's scouring his "liberry" for a commentary that addresses this.

Aren't you being a wee bit too literal , squirt?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It never was going to be about a David theocracy, and even David is quoted in 2:30,31 as saying the enthronement he foresaw was the resurrection of Christ.

So the following prophecy which is spoken of here has nothing to do with a Davidic theocracy?:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Are you willing to argue that this prophecy has already been fulfilled?

If your answer is "no" then tell me when you think that this prophecy will be fulfilled.

Thanks!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So the following prophecy which is spoken of here has nothing to do with a Davidic theocracy?:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Are you willing to argue that this prophecy has already been fulfilled?

If your answer is "no" then tell me when you think that this prophecy will be fulfilled.

Thanks!

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

That answers nothing. Of course you must pervert the Lord Jesus' words here when He says that the kingdom will not be near at hand until He returns to the earth:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).​

It's time for you to get out your editing pencil and pervert those words of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

That answers nothing. Of course you must pervert the Lord Jesus' words here when He says that the kingdom will not be near at hand until He returns to the earth:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).​

It's time for you to get out your editing pencil and pervert those words of the Lord Jesus.

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).

That righteous branch is Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

There are two aspects of the Kingdom of God, one past and now, and another in the future.

You deny the present aspect, and one must be born again to be able to "see" it.--

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

LA

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There are two aspects of the Kingdom of God, one past and now, and another in the future.

So does this one remain in the future?:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

From the very beginning the throne of David and the Davidic kingdom were both earthly in nature, as witnessed by the following words:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

Solomon sat upon the throne of David on the earth and his kingdom which was established was one which was earthly.Now let us look at the Lord's promises made to David in regard to that throne and kingdom:

"I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever...And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam.7:12-13).​

Since the throne and the kingdom were both "earthly" in nature then we can know that God established the earthly throne and the earthly kingdom FOR EVER. God also said that He would not "alter" the promises which He made to David:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Some say that God did "alter" His promise to David because the "throne of David" was changed from an earthly throne into a heavenly one.

According to them God did lie when He promised David that He would not "alter" his promises because the teaching of some Christians is based on the idea that God changed the throne from an earthly one into a heavenly one.

Here the Lord Jesus speaks of sitting upon His throne when He returns to the earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

So, LA, is Jeremiah 23:5 referring to a kingdom which remains in the future?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So does this one remain in the future?:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

From the very beginning the throne of David and the Davidic kingdom were both earthly in nature, as witnessed by the following words:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

Solomon sat upon the throne of David on the earth and his kingdom which was established was one which was earthly.Now let us look at the Lord's promises made to David in regard to that throne and kingdom:

"I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever...And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam.7:12-13).​

Since the throne and the kingdom were both "earthly" in nature then we can know that God established the earthly throne and the earthly kingdom FOR EVER. God also said that He would not "alter" the promises which He made to David:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Some say that God did "alter" His promise to David because the "throne of David" was changed from an earthly throne into a heavenly one.

According to them God did lie when He promised David that He would not "alter" his promises because the teaching of some Christians is based on the idea that God changed the throne from an earthly one into a heavenly one.

Here the Lord Jesus speaks of sitting upon His throne when He returns to the earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

So, LA, is Jeremiah 23:5 referring to a kingdom which remains in the future?

Your own verses destroy your doctrine.

The earthly Throne of David was a shadow of the Heavenly Throne of Christ.

Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.