ECT The "Gospel" at Luke 9:6

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Jerry, you have been shown over and over that Israel of the OT was made up of all peoples who joined themselves to the God of Israel.

You reject that and insist that Israel then and now can only consist of pure bloods of the flesh of Abraham.

You must think that even though the LORD said He would do certain things at Jeremiah 31:31-34 He will not do them despite what He said here:

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
(Num.23:19).​

When the LORD originally revealed the things found in Jeremiah 31:31-34 to the Jews they understood that the promise was TO THEM. And they were right. But according to your discredited ideas the LORD told them things which He knew were not true--that this prophecy was never directed toward them.

The God I worship would never do the things which your theology demands. So I know that the God which I worship is not the same one in which you believe!
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
You must think that even though the LORD said He would do certain things at Jeremiah 31:31-34 He will not do them despite what He said here:

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
(Num.23:19).​

When the LORD originally revealed the things found in Jeremiah 31:31-34 to the Jews they understood that the promise was TO THEM. And they were right. But according to your discredited ideas the LORD told them things which He knew were not true--that this prophecy was never directed toward them.

The God I worship would never do the things which your theology demands. So I know that the God which I worship is not the same one in which you believe!

The new covenant was put in place at the cross of Christ and the resurrection and ascension of Jesus to Gods Throne.

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So what are the better promises Jerry?

You need realize that God hid the better promises in the old.

You are like the Jews in the days of Jesus, who thought God would return to a stone temple, and restore a stone city.

The "land" promises refer to the Kingdom of God which Jesus spoke about.

Jesus never spoke of the land, but of the Kingdom as did Paul.

The way in which any land was spoken of was in regard to inheriting the whole earth.

You think the tribes of Israel will live in narrow strips of land in the middle east and fish in rivers.

Your teachers do not learn from Jesus Christ.

Gods people are not just Jews but are of all peoples on the face of the earth who believe on Him.

LA
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

No, at this time he is the Mediator of the New Testament;

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance"
(Heb.9:15; KJV).​

You still refuse to believe what is written here about the New Covenant:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more"
(Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. So therefore, in the future those who will make up both houses will be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

Since you have no place for the fulfillment of this prophecy in your eschatology you will once again attempt to pervert its clear meaning.
 
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andyc

New member
Jesus was preaching and teaching about the kingdom of heaven, and also warning about the reality of hell.

That's hardly a difficult question, shugart.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
No, at this time he is the Mediator of the New Testament;

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance"
(Heb.9:15; KJV).​

The new testament IS the new covenant.

You still refuse to believe what is written here about the New Covenant:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more"
(Jer.31:31-34).​

The new covenant was put in place at the cross by Jesus blood, the resurrection and ascension to Gods Throne to mediate the new covenant.

You confess that you are not in it.



In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. So therefore, in the future those who will make up both houses will be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

Paul said otherwise--

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

and those of the gentiles who believe are joined to Israel in the olive tree.

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Since you have no place for the fulfillment of this prophecy in your eschatology you will once again attempt to pervert its clear meaning.

Since you are not in the new covenant you do not have forgiveness of sins or know the Lord.

LA
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The new testament IS the new covenant.

How is it possible that you can be so confused?

When we look at the following verse we can know that the word "testament" is in regard to the Lord Jesus' Last Will and Testament:

"For where a testament (diatheke) is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament (diatheke) is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"
(Heb.9:16-17).​

Dean Alford wrote that "It is quite vain to deny the testamentary sense of 'diatheke' in this verse....I believe it will be found that we must at all hazards accept the meaning of 'testament,' as being the only one which will in any way meet the plain requirement of the verse" [emphasis added] (Alford, The Greek Testament, IV:173, 174; cf. the renderings of ASV, RSV).

In his commentary on Hebrews 9:15-22 Matthew Henry wrote that "In these verses the apostle considers the gospel under the notion of a will or testament, the new or last will and testament of Christ..." (Matthew Henry, Commentary on Hebrews 9:15-22).

It amazes me that anyone would dare assert that a "covenant" is the same thing as a "testament." However, I have come to expect nothing but nonsense coming from you. And you never disappoint!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
and those of the gentiles who believe are joined to Israel in the olive tree.

That is not what the analogy of the Olive Tree means. Besides that, nothing you say even begins to answer what is revealed in this passage:

You still refuse to believe what is written here about the New Covenant:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more"
(Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. So therefore, in the future those who will make up both houses will be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

Since you have no place for the fulfillment of this prophecy in your eschatology you will once again attempt to pervert its clear meaning.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
How is it possible that you can be so confused?

When we look at the following verse we can know that the word "testament" is in regard to the Lord Jesus' Last Will and Testament:

"For where a testament (diatheke) is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament (diatheke) is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"
(Heb.9:16-17).​

Dean Alford wrote that "It is quite vain to deny the testamentary sense of 'diatheke' in this verse....I believe it will be found that we must at all hazards accept the meaning of 'testament,' as being the only one which will in any way meet the plain requirement of the verse" [emphasis added] (Alford, The Greek Testament, IV:173, 174; cf. the renderings of ASV, RSV).

In his commentary on Hebrews 9:15-22 Matthew Henry wrote that "In these verses the apostle considers the gospel under the notion of a will or testament, the new or last will and testament of Christ..." (Matthew Henry, Commentary on Hebrews 9:15-22).

It amazes me that anyone would dare assert that a "covenant" is the same thing as a "testament." However, I have come to expect nothing but nonsense coming from you. And you never disappoint!




But then, Jerry, you'd be stuck with one isolated (English) reference to testament when the whole letter there is about us being in the new covenant, which is actually eternal, though 'new' to us. If there is a testament/will part to it, it is that Christ is to be explained all over the world, in remembrance.

You'd have to show me where some other term was used.

The apostles accounts and letters are a 'testament' because they are how we remember Christ and pass on the new and living way to the next generation.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
How is it possible that you can be so confused?

When we look at the following verse we can know that the word "testament" is in regard to the Lord Jesus' Last Will and Testament:

"For where a testament (diatheke) is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament (diatheke) is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth"
(Heb.9:16-17).​

Dean Alford wrote that "It is quite vain to deny the testamentary sense of 'diatheke' in this verse....I believe it will be found that we must at all hazards accept the meaning of 'testament,' as being the only one which will in any way meet the plain requirement of the verse" [emphasis added] (Alford, The Greek Testament, IV:173, 174; cf. the renderings of ASV, RSV).

In his commentary on Hebrews 9:15-22 Matthew Henry wrote that "In these verses the apostle considers the gospel under the notion of a will or testament, the new or last will and testament of Christ..." (Matthew Henry, Commentary on Hebrews 9:15-22).

It amazes me that anyone would dare assert that a "covenant" is the same thing as a "testament." However, I have come to expect nothing but nonsense coming from you. And you never disappoint!

(Mat 26:28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

(Mar 14:24) And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

(Luk 22:20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

(1Co 11:25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

(2Co 3:6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

(2Co 3:14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

(Heb 7:22) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

(Heb 9:15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

(Heb 9:16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

(Heb 9:17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

(Heb 9:18) Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

(Heb 9:20) Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.


Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
(Mat 26:28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

(Mar 14:24) And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

(Luk 22:20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

(1Co 11:25) After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

(2Co 3:6) Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

(2Co 3:14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

(Heb 7:22) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

(Heb 9:15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

(Heb 9:16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

(Heb 9:17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

(Heb 9:18) Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

(Heb 9:20) Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.


Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The New Covenant is a testament, as LA shows with scripture, which is similar to a "Last Will and Testament" which becomes effective after the benefactor's death.

I wonder if those who deny being named in the New Covenant realize they are denying an eternal inheritance of everlasting life and glory with God?

It is this inheritance that is promised and guaranteed to persons of faith in Jesus Christ, who died and resurrected in their stead, in order to provide them with the wealth of glory in His kingdom. Ephesians 1:13-14
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
That is not what the analogy of the Olive Tree means. Besides that, nothing you say even begins to answer what is revealed in this passage:

You still refuse to believe what is written here about the New Covenant:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more"
(Jer.31:31-34).​

In this passage we can see that the "fathers" of both the house of Israel and the house of Judah are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Their "fathers" broke the LORD's covenant and it was the physical descendants of Jacob who did that. So therefore, in the future those who will make up both houses will be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So these verses prove that sometime in the FUTURE all of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be saved.

Since you have no place for the fulfillment of this prophecy in your eschatology you will once again attempt to pervert its clear meaning.

Show them in the NT.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

2Jn 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2Jn 1:2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
2Jn 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
2Jn 1:4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
2Jn 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The New Covenant is a testament, as LA shows with scripture, which is similar to a "Last Will and Testament" which becomes effective after the benefactor's death.

I wonder if those who deny being named in the New Covenant realize they are denying an eternal inheritance of everlasting life and glory with God?

It is this inheritance that is promised and guaranteed to persons of faith in Jesus Christ, who died and resurrected in their stead, in order to provide them with the wealth of glory in His kingdom. Ephesians 1:13-14

MADS champion, Les Feldick, has said that the more he reads the book of Revelation he is convinced it is
talking about Israel.

Well of course it is, but to say the Israel of the middle east is that Israel , is the biggest lie the world has ever seen in the end times, and we will soon see how they link up with the RCC and Moslem to try and destroy the true Church the Israel of the Spirit of God.

LA
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
MADS champion, Les Feldick, has said that the more he reads the book of Revelation he is convinced it is
talking about Israel.

Well of course it is, but to say the Israel of the middle east is that Israel , is the biggest lie the world has ever seen in the end times, and we will soon see how they link up with the RCC and Moslem to try and destroy the true Church the Israel of the Spirit of God.

LA

Agreed. :sigh:
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
MADS champion, Les Feldick, has said that the more he reads the book of Revelation he is convinced it is
talking about Israel.

Well of course it is, but to say the Israel of the middle east is that Israel , is the biggest lie the world has ever seen in the end times, and we will soon see how they link up with the RCC and Moslem to try and destroy the true Church the Israel of the Spirit of God.

LA



2P2P champion STP says that there are 3 heavens. He did not say whether there is cell service up there so I can talk to some of my favorite folks in the other two.
 

Danoh

New member
2P2P champion STP says that there are 3 heavens. He did not say whether there is cell service up there so I can talk to some of my favorite folks in the other two.

No problem - you can bring your ever endless supply of books "about" with you to keep you company :chuckle:

Bring a truckload of red markers with you, while you're at it; you'll need them.
 
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Danoh

New member
MADS champion, Les Feldick, has said that the more he reads the book of Revelation he is convinced it is
talking about Israel.

Well of course it is, but to say the Israel of the middle east is that Israel , is the biggest lie the world has ever seen in the end times, and we will soon see how they link up with the RCC and Moslem to try and destroy the true Church the Israel of the Spirit of God.

LA

Les is an old Pastor-Teacher who is up in his years. He's been around since back when his view on today's state of Israel as being the result of God's hand had been a more prevalent view among MAD based Pastor-Teachers.

Up in years as he is, given how far back he goes as a Believer - he is bound to have ended up at ways of looking at some things that are not exactly how MOST MAD based Pastor-Teachers might view such things today.

His view on today's "Israel" is one of those things that needs updating.

MOST MAD based Pastor-Teachers I have known, and or known of, consider today's state of Israel NOT God's doing.

Rather, the Jews' own doing.

All you have to do is pay attention - if a MAD holds that the Abrahamic Covenant of blessing Israel results in a blessing in return is NOT in effect during this Mystery Age - that will be a MAD NOT likely to view that the state of Israel over there today is God's doing.

But you and IP and your kind are ever determined to "one size fits all" all you look at, even as you point your finger at an old saint who is out there mostly preaching that faith alone, through grace alone is what saves.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

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2P2P champion STP says that there are 3 heavens. He did not say whether there is cell service up there so I can talk to some of my favorite folks in the other two.
2Cor 12:2 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:2) I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

If there is a "third heaven" are there not two other heavens?

Is there some grammar trick that we need to know to "interp" this?
 
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