The earth is flat and we never went to the moon

[glorydaz]

When a glober resorts to gravity, the conversation is over and the glober lost. You claim to be 100% sure of a globe and that's just not true. Sorry, Lon.

Patrick, you're having too much fun. Didn't you say that you knew the earth was a sphere because that's what the Bible says?

 

[glorydaz]

Look at the map I posted with the sun going around. Or look at the United Nations Logo. :chuckle:

Yep, there's the chuckle.

 

[patrick jane]

"As far as the East is from the West, so far are your sins removed." In the flat-earth version? A short flight. In my understanding? Infinite, East NEVER meets West. Doubling down on your convictions is different than listening to what others are saying. Because I've a good many pilot friends, have flown with them and know how it all works, you can't find a pilot that doesn't understand the earth is a globe. Not unless something happened and he's no longer a pilot or is playing with you. That's 'lying?' I cannot carry on a conversation with one so situated that 'lie' is the first thing off his/her lips. It is TOO entrenched for me to do a lick of good. I CAN prove the earth is a globe at a certain amount of cost and a plane flight. You don't believe it? It doesn't really matter, does it? If you've a few thousand bucks and are up for a flight, let me know and we'll settle this thread. Until then? :nono: Believe what you like. I won't be able to prove a thing without $ down. Not interested? Neither am I. I know what I know and "don't care" what you want to believe after that. I really don't. Could give a rip less. It'd cost 'me' too much to prove it to you. I'm not sure your ignorance is worth a few thousand. This thread isn't worth a few thousand. If it ever really matters to you, to have it proved, let me know and we can wrap this up in short order because you'll travel 'around.' :wave:

It wasn't the first thing off my lips. You mocked, ridiculed then by definition you called me a liar first by declaring: "I know for sure" taking pot shots basically calling me stupid. If that's your attitude then good riddance. Now go feel great about yourself for handling this whole debate so nicely. :wave2: Keep your precious money.

 

[WizardofOz]

Distance.

:nono:

You could make these calculations yourself if you ever wanted to confirm your theory one way or another.

 

[patrick jane]

Patrick, you're having too much fun. Didn't you say that you knew the earth was a sphere because that's what the Bible says?

If I did it was before two weeks or 10 days ago, roughly. I'm not kidding and I chuckle when something is humorous. The UN actually uses a flat earth map for their logo.

 

[WizardofOz]

that's exactly what I'm saying, you can't do that north south. and if you go from LA to LA by only going west, the path would actually be a circle.

But I didn't say a circle. I said straight. A compass would confirm direction, would it not? You can fly east to your destination or west because the earth is a sphere.

Try doing the math on flight patterns. Take your model and calculate how many miles a flight from Johannesburg to Perth would be. Just give me a rough estimate.

 

[patrick jane]

But I didn't say a circle. I said straight. A compass would confirm direction, would it not? You can fly east to your destination or west because the earth is a sphere.

Try doing the math on flight patterns. Take your model and calculate how many miles a flight from Johannesburg to Perth would be. Just give me a rough estimate.

Nobody has flown east to west or vice versa on a straight path. They would do a circle. Why do you think the call the airplanes. Look it up.

 

[WizardofOz]

Nobody has flown east to west or vice versa on a straight path. They would do a circle. Why do you think the call the airplanes. Look it up.

Let's crunch some data. How far is Johannesburg, South Africa from Perth Australia?

Use your reality

How would one fly from A to B in that scenario? What would they see below them? Ocean or land?

 

[glorydaz]

If I did it was before two weeks or 10 days ago, roughly. I'm not kidding and I chuckle when something is humorous. The UN actually uses a flat earth map for their logo.

Well, we're all entitled to change our mind. (Unless you're old like me and then you won't care what shape the world is in.) I just know it ain't good with all these terrorists running around.

 

[patrick jane]

But I didn't say a circle. I said straight. A compass would confirm direction, would it not? You can fly east to your destination or west because the earth is a sphere.

Try doing the math on flight patterns. Take your model and calculate how many miles a flight from Johannesburg to Perth would be. Just give me a rough estimate.

Funny you mention compasses, they also prove flat earth in a couple ways, as well as gyroscopes. I haven't gotten that far yet but surveyors' equipment also. I think compasses stop working down by the south pole. :idunno:

 

[WizardofOz]

Or how about Santiago, Chile to Tokyo? That seems a better example given the model you provided? How long would that flight take?

 

[WizardofOz]

Funny you mention compasses, they also prove flat earth in a couple ways, as well as gyroscopes. I haven't gotten that far yet but surveyors' equipment also. I think compasses stop working down by the south pole. :idunno:

How do compasses prove a flat earth? :idunno:

 

[patrick jane]

How do compasses prove a flat earth? :idunno:

I can't remember right this second but I just watched a video today. I'll think of it. As far as how many miles and how long from one point to another on a flight, I could only go by what THEY SAY the distances are. Do planes have odometers? :chuckle: Who measured the distance? have you seen just a few of the numbers? there's more than this:


​

Acts 10:11 KJV - [FONT=&quot]And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:


[/FONT]

 

[WizardofOz]

As far as how many miles and how long from one point to another on a flight, I could only go by what THEY SAY the distances are.

I'll make it really easy. Would you fly over more land or more ocean flying from Santiago, Chile to Tokyo Japan?

 

[Right Divider]

3% of what (number wise)?
Cause 3% can certainly make a big difference in the outcome.
Just ask any bank.

3% is the variation in the distance from one extreme to the other and it's NOTHING like bank interest.

Doesn't "direct" basically mean closer in this case?

No, it does not. Direct has to do with the angle at which the solar energy and light hits the planet.

And for the record, I'm not asking if it is closer to the earth in general, but closer to YOU (wherever you live on earth) to use as a reference point in each question.

Again, it not the distance but the direction that matters. The change in solar energy from a change of 3% distance is not the cause of summer and winter.

I'm not really interested in the timing at this point, but just the distance.

You're fixating on distance, when distance is irrelevant.

I didn't figure you did.

Perhaps.
I was hyper skeptical of us coming from monkeys too when science community tried to tell we did.
So being hyper skeptical can be beneficial.

Once again, there is a difference between real science and the pseudo-science of monkey to man evolution.

That DO trick people into seeing something as looking different than what it really is.
Can happen to the best of us, including scientist.

Sometimes, but many of the observations that I've been taking about do not fall in that category.

Those unbelieving atheist use science as their "proof" that it could not have happened as scripture describes.
How can science account for the sun and moon standing still?
What sort of formula have they come up with that would make that a possibility?

Once again, you seem to confusing real science with materialism.

Hold on.
Are you saying that the scientific community agrees that the virgin birth took place as described in scripture?
What scientific data do they have that supports that possibility?

I sure get tired of people twisting what I say.

NO, I'm saying that operational sciences cannot deal with one time events nor miracles.

Perhaps.
Does real science have a formula figured out how the sun and moon could stand still?

NO, I'm saying that operational sciences cannot deal with one time events nor miracles.

I figured so.

But still, science does feed the public with info that opposes those things.
Which scientists do you trust, and why?

The ones that tell the truth. Most of the branches of modern science were founded by creationist. Do you disbelieve all of them too?

The bogus science that you're talking about is a shame, but you cannot throw the baby out with the bath water, as they say.

You keep saying that, but how do you determine which scientists to believe, because they do give conflicting info than the others?

You can do the experiments yourself. Not all of science is out of reach to the layperson.

Again, I'm not going to throw out all scientific knowledge just because some is bad.

If you mean 'exhaustive' I agree.
But I think it does give details of the universe, as Job 38:31.
The stars in Orion are a group cluster that are gravitationally bound together, EXCEPT for the stars in the belt of Orion which are not gravitationally bound together.

How do you know about these gravitations? What makes you think that this is what take verse is talking about?

"Loose the bands" means to remove. God is challenging man to do something that he cannot do.

I know you think that by saying "real" science, that should settle the matter, but it does not.
As conflicting data is coming from scientists themselves.

Perhaps so, some things are clearer than others. It seems that you want to throw out everything.

Ships have been using the north star to determine their latitude for a long time and this technique is proven science that does not work in the flat earth model, period.

Perhaps.
Being overly skeptical has kept me grounded in the past to not fall for some theories.

Perhaps, but it also has your questions things that you should agree with.

I don't have to see the earth being created in 6 days to believe it is a historical fact.

Apples and walruses again.

And I also do see a lot of science data that tells me it did not happen in 6 days.
So we are back to square one ----- what source are ya gonna believe for your final conclusion?
Since I do not have the funds or equipment (or the know-how to use the equipment) to do the scientific exploration of the universe, I have to rely on what they tell me.
And as you have mentioned, I am skeptical of them. Very skeptical.

I don't believe any science that disagrees with the Bible. What we have been discussing does not disagree with the Bible.

And please know that I do not word it that way to make it seem like YOU trust science over scripture.
I am not saying that at all.
I am confident that you trust scripture.
It's going to boil down to whether we interpret scripture as historical when giving descriptions the earth, or if they are just a form of poetic mythological type idioms.
And with that, I can say that I lean toward the scriptural reference of the earth to be mainly historical and not just poetic idioms.
And that's why I have been mostly silent in this thread, because I only want to look at what scripture says about the earth without being concerned if science matches it or not.
My study of scripture has not led me to a belief that our earth is whirling around in space.

But if a thread ever comes up that discusses how scripture describes the earth, moon, and sun, ...... I'll be all up in that thread!

I cannot compete in this thread because I cannot confirm or deny whether most of the science info is accurate or not.
So I will butt out of this thread as it is more about scripture vs. science instead of scripture vs. scripture.

But thanks for your courtesy and listening ear.
:thumb:
I do read the science threads even though I hardly ever post in them, as I am always looking to gain more knowledge of it.
I absorb what I can, but some of it is still over my head.
But I keep listening and reading.

Peace.

 

[patrick jane]

I'll make it really easy. Would you fly over more land or more ocean flying from Santiago, Chile to Tokyo Japan?

Off the top of my head with a globe or flat, I would guess more ocean.

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]They Mock Flat Earth, [but the Testimonies keep coming...][/h]

Warning: Profanity

More Flat Earth Testimonies... Amazingly, these are all pulled from the comments of a single vid (the last FE testimony video)


https://youtu.be/x-AfFW3EuGw 15 minutes - click on link for full screen view

 

[patrick jane]

Nobody has flown east to west or vice versa on a straight path. They would do a circle. Why do you think the call the airplanes. Look it up.

I meant Why do you think they call them airplanes? Because they fly through the air over the earth plane.

 

[patrick jane]

[h=1]Biblical Flat Earth Apologetics 101[/h]

Biblical Flat Earth Apologetics 101For my original video on Jeff Williams: "Flat Earth: The Christonaut and the Eye of Providence"


https://youtu.be/_Is5aC_-_2s - 23 minutes - Click on link for full screen view

 

[Lon]

It wasn't the first thing off my lips. You mocked

Well, yes, but not meanly. I'd thought, as you know, that you were doing this tongue and cheek but it was no mean or ill intention.

ridiculed

I did? I think scrutiny is a good word. I'm sorry if you felt ridiculed. It may have come more in our private conversation thought, when I hadn't realized you were serious. That also, likely causes a bit of an awkward moment, but nothing too strenuous. I really don't think this is a big deal because it isn't going to do much for disagreement in the real world.

then by definition you called me a liar first by declaring: "I know for sure" taking pot shots basically calling me stupid.

No, I think again, that's that awkward moment of realization that it isn't a game. Even when you pointed me here, I was assuming it was very lighthearted at the time. Because of it, I can see why you came to a few of these conclusions, but please, by no intention. There was no intention of even intimating such. To me? Just not that big of a deal. I think you are wrong. World collapse? :think: Ceiling fall down? :nono: Nope, we're good! We just lived through a pretty mild tremor is all. I don't live in California, but I've lived in Alaska. Tremors 'used' to scare me. This one between you and I? To me at least, nothing to shake a friendship. Hope it is the same for you.

If that's your attitude then good riddance.

Well, I'm assuming you mean out of thread (and hopefully with a bit of light-hearted with it too, at least that's how I'd like to read it).

Now go feel great about yourself for handling this whole debate so nicely. :wave2:

As long as we are good on the rest of TOL, I can live with that and comply.

Keep your precious money.

If I had it, I'd surely spend it but I'd think both you and Dave would forgo it with me and spend it on more important things like child hunger.

We can, I think, wait until we all get to the other side and ask God, or, if by chance we see the passing of the earth and the new heaven and earth, we'll all see together and put this to rest with not much ado. I really don't see this as an earth-shaking debate (for the most part). To me, it just seems a minor tremor that doesn't need much attention. If another sees it more important than that? Not my thread and not the hill I want to battle over. In Him and hope this repost meets your inspection and approval :e4e: -Lon