ECT The disciples go blank on the death of Christ

[Interplanner]

Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. That means that the whole Old Testament was about Jesus. Jesus came to earth and taught the rules and regulations for a New Covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the New Covenant. There were changes to the old one, see Hebrews 7:12.

"What you do" STP is you follow the same template. Follow how Ps 68 is used in eph 4. Follow how Joel 2 is used in Acts 2. Follow how the three passages in Acts 13 are used.

2P2P does not. It busts all of that. EVeryday you guys are here saying it does not mean what it says on those quotes.

 

[Interplanner]

IP wrote:
The answer about the type of blank is to be found in Mk 8:31+. How could Peter rebuke Christ for such a clear explanation of what was to happen--if there had been no explanation? This is where this blank stuff--not knowing, not wanting to talk, not sure what he meant--all starts.



I wrote this last night. I don't see where Jerry has dealt with it.

I don't see where Jerry has dealt with Acts 2. Ie, my 'problem' at Mt 24:29 is Jerry thinks I think it happenend in the 1st century; I don't. But then you go read Acts 2 quoting Joel 2 and that didn't either. We all need to get on the same page as the apostles. They did not use the OT with the tight, NASA-punchlist mentiality that we impose on it.

That's even true of Dan 9 even though the 490 years does fit into the 1st century, but I mean the last lines of ch 9 get wiggly.

 

[God's Truth]

IP wrote:
The answer about the type of blank is to be found in Mk 8:31+. How could Peter rebuke Christ for such a clear explanation of what was to happen--if there had been no explanation? This is where this blank stuff--not knowing, not wanting to talk, not sure what he meant--all starts.



I wrote this last night. I don't see where Jerry has dealt with it.

I don't see where Jerry has dealt with Acts 2. Ie, my 'problem' at Mt 24:29 is Jerry thinks I think it happenend in the 1st century; I don't. But then you go read Acts 2 quoting Joel 2 and that didn't either. We all need to get on the same page as the apostles. They did not use the OT with the tight, NASA-punchlist mentiality that we impose on it.

That's even true of Dan 9 even though the 490 years does fit into the 1st century, but I mean the last lines of ch 9 get wiggly.

Could you explain this a little more for me? What exactly do you mean?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't "get rid" of it. It gets fulfilled in Christ.

No, it has not yet been fulfilled in Christ:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Judgment and justice are not now being executed in the earth. In fact, Paul calls the present age "evil":

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal.1:4).​

According to your discredited ideas the reign of the Lord Jesus has resulted in evil and not justice.

 

[Interplanner]

No, it has not yet been fulfilled in Christ:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Judgment and justice are not now being executed in the earth. In fact, Paul calls the present age "evil":

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal.1:4).​

According to your discredited ideas the reign of the Lord Jesus has resulted in evil and not justice.

You are so simplistic Jerry, it is disgusting. We can probably find counterverses for EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING we want!

Rom 3:26: God sacrificed Christ at the present time to be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Obviously that did not 'change' everything on earth, which will happen in the NHNE. But faith can see that it is already true in Christ now. That is the source of our hope. That is what "in Christ" means, Jerry. You are totally lost on this. 2 Cor 5:7!!! We do not live by sight.

btw, while we are on the plain meaning of things: if he does justice throughout the earth, what is the point of just having it in Israel. It's a great picture but it is not strictly speaking the truth of it. The NHNE is when that will be true in the whole earth.

If you have and believe the NHNE, why do you "need" this other Judaistic thing which falls apart? I mean, the way you sound, your mental stability and life depend on it.

 

[God's Truth]

No, it has not yet been fulfilled in Christ:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Judgment and justice are not now being executed in the earth. In fact, Paul calls the present age "evil":

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal.1:4).​

According to your discredited ideas the reign of the Lord Jesus has resulted in evil and not justice.

Jesus is the righteous branch and judgment has come.

What is wrong with you?

 

[Interplanner]

Jesus is the righteous branch and judgment has come.

What is wrong with you?

The categories of by faith vs by sight don't exist. 2 Cor 5:7.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter was speaking about what the old testament said!

Of course you quoted nothing that proves that the following prophecy has already been fulfilled:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

From the very beginning the throne of David and the Davidic kingdom were both earthly in nature, as witnessed by the following words:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

Solomon sat upon the throne of David on the earth and his kingdom which was established was one which was earthly.Now let us look at the Lord's promises made to David in regard to that throne and kingdom:

"I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever...And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam.7:12-13).​

Since the throne and the kingdom were both "earthly" in nature then we can know that God established the earthly throne and the earthly kingdom FOR EVER. God also said that He would not "alter" the promises which He made to David:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Some say that God did "alter" His promise to David because the "throne of David" was changed from an earthly throne into a heavenly one.

According to them God did lie when He promised David that He would not "alter" his promises because the teaching of some Christians is based on the idea that God changed the throne from an earthly one into a heavenly one.

Here the Lord Jesus speaks of sitting upon His throne when He returns to the earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

Are you willing to argue that the LORD altered His promises to David and the throne of David is now a heavenly throne and is no longer an earthly one?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus is the righteous branch and judgment has come.

What is wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me. it is you who does not even understand the principles in regard to the earthly kingdom. The lord Jesus told his apostles to pray in the following manner:

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).​

It will not be until the following prophecy is fulfilled when the LORD's "will" will be done on earth as it is in heaven:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Judgment and justice are not now being executed in the earth. In fact, Paul calls the present age "evil":

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal.1:4).​

Despite this you can somehow trick you mind into believing that the Lord Jesus is reigning now and His reign has resulted in an evil age!

What's wrong with you?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You are so simplistic Jerry, it is disgusting.

Taking God at his word is simplistic.
You should try it.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

"What you do" STP is you follow the same template. Follow how Ps 68 is used in eph 4. Follow how Joel 2 is used in Acts 2. Follow how the three passages in Acts 13 are used.

2P2P does not. It busts all of that. EVeryday you guys are here saying it does not mean what it says on those quotes.

:chuckle:

Made up

 

[God's Truth]

The categories of by faith vs by sight don't exist. 2 Cor 5:7.

Scripture after scripture they deny what is plainly written.

 

[God's Truth]

Of course you quoted nothing that proves that the following prophecy has already been fulfilled:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

From the very beginning the throne of David and the Davidic kingdom were both earthly in nature, as witnessed by the following words:

"Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly" (1 Ki. 2:12).​

Solomon sat upon the throne of David on the earth and his kingdom which was established was one which was earthly.Now let us look at the Lord's promises made to David in regard to that throne and kingdom:

"I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever...And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam.7:12-13).​

Since the throne and the kingdom were both "earthly" in nature then we can know that God established the earthly throne and the earthly kingdom FOR EVER. God also said that He would not "alter" the promises which He made to David:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

Some say that God did "alter" His promise to David because the "throne of David" was changed from an earthly throne into a heavenly one.

According to them God did lie when He promised David that He would not "alter" his promises because the teaching of some Christians is based on the idea that God changed the throne from an earthly one into a heavenly one.

Here the Lord Jesus speaks of sitting upon His throne when He returns to the earth:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

Are you willing to argue that the LORD altered His promises to David and the throne of David is now a heavenly throne and is no longer an earthly one?

The throne of David was a throne over Israel. Jesus is over Israel!

 

[God's Truth]

Nothing is wrong with me. it is you who does not even understand the principles in regard to the earthly kingdom. The lord Jesus told his apostles to pray in the following manner:

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).

That is about obeying Jesus’ powerful words.

It will not be until the following prophecy is fulfilled when the LORD's "will" will be done on earth as it is in heaven:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).

Jesus did come and fulfill that.

Don’t you believe Jesus when he said he came to fulfill?

Do you think he failed?

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Judgment and justice are not now being executed in the earth. In fact, Paul calls the present age "evil":

That is a judgment.

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal.1:4).

…as on earth as it is in heaven.

Don’t you see that he is ruling now and judgment has come and it is on earth, in our hearts, as it is in heaven?

Despite this you can somehow trick you mind into believing that the Lord Jesus is reigning now and His reign has resulted in an evil age!

What's wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me. I do not demean the most important time ever--- when the Savior came.

 

[God's Truth]

Nothing is wrong with me. it is you who does not even understand the principles in regard to the earthly kingdom. The lord Jesus told his apostles to pray in the following manner:

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).​

It will not be until the following prophecy is fulfilled when the LORD's "will" will be done on earth as it is in heaven:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).​

Judgment and justice are not now being executed in the earth. In fact, Paul calls the present age "evil":

"Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of God and our Father" (Gal.1:4).​

Despite this you can somehow trick you mind into believing that the Lord Jesus is reigning now and His reign has resulted in an evil age!

What's wrong with you?

When Jesus comes again, it will be as a thief. Who is going to be saved when Jesus comes again?

All God's enemies will be put under him and then he hands the kingdom over to the Father. There is no mention of an earthy throne.

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.

When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all. " (1 Corinthians 15:22-28)

 

[God's Truth]

IP wrote:
The answer about the type of blank is to be found in Mk 8:31+. How could Peter rebuke Christ for such a clear explanation of what was to happen--if there had been no explanation? This is where this blank stuff--not knowing, not wanting to talk, not sure what he meant--all starts.



I wrote this last night. I don't see where Jerry has dealt with it.

I don't see where Jerry has dealt with Acts 2. Ie, my 'problem' at Mt 24:29 is Jerry thinks I think it happenend in the 1st century; I don't. But then you go read Acts 2 quoting Joel 2 and that didn't either. We all need to get on the same page as the apostles. They did not use the OT with the tight, NASA-punchlist mentiality that we impose on it.

That's even true of Dan 9 even though the 490 years does fit into the 1st century, but I mean the last lines of ch 9 get wiggly.

I would like to study this with someone knowledgeable. Could you talk about this more?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The throne of David was a throne over Israel. Jesus is over Israel!

The throne of David belongs exclusively to the Lord Jesus Christ. Gabriel told Mary the following:

"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Lk.1:32,33).​

The Lord Jesus is not now sitting on His own throne but instead the throne of the Father:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).​

If the Lord Jesus is now reigning from David's throne then He would be seated in His own throne and not the Father's throne. But He isn't, proving that He is not reigning from the throne of David.

 

[God's Truth]

The throne of David belongs exclusively to the Lord Jesus Christ. Gabriel told Mary the following:

"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end" (Lk.1:32,33).​

The Lord Jesus is not now sitting on His own throne but instead the throne of the Father:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).​

If the Lord Jesus is now reigning from David's throne then He would be seated in His own throne and not the Father's throne. But He isn't, proving that He is not reigning from the throne of David.

Do you really think that Jesus is going to give up the Father's throne for David's?!!!!!

So according to you, will it be Jesus sitting on his own throne, or on David's?!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you really think that Jesus is going to give up the Father's throne for David's?!!!!!

So according to you, will it be Jesus sitting on his own throne, or on David's?!

The Lord Jesus will sit upon His own throne. And that throne is the one which will be given to Him, the throne of David.

 

[God's Truth]

The Lord Jesus will sit upon His own throne. And that throne is the one which will be given to Him, the throne of David.

Hahahahahha

Jesus is ON HIS THRONE now and it is a throne over Israel and above any throne.

Revelations 23:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.