SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
opcorn:
I've asked multiple times. He won't touch it.
ECT The disciples go blank on the death of Christ
- Thread starter Interplanner
- Start date
I've asked multiple times. He won't touch it.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So what Peter said later had nothing to do with an earthly kingdom?:
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you" (Acts 3:19-20).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the good news (gospel)" (Mk.1:14-15).
Interplanner
Well-known member
So what? That doesn't change the content of it. It does not follow that the good announcement is the kingdom; things can be simultaneous, you know. Ie, when people believe the Gospel, it can make kingdom activity increase.
Nor is it a validation of a monarchy! It simply means that what the reign of Christ was going to do is really, really close and active and doing things. Why would anybody automatically believe this was a monarchy or theocracy statement? At that time in Judea if you declared theocracy, it was a declaration of war on Rome! Why would anyone do that? Nonsense, just more 2P2P nonsense because it is a 'sin' to know history.
way 2 go
Well-known member
lain:because Israel fell there is a different gospel
Luk 13:9 And if it bears fruit, well; and if not, then after that you shall cut it down.
Jer 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had
via Jews
circumcised and uncircumcised
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
we know there are different rules for the circumcision.
Act 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
future
Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
:blabla:
Mat_4:23 And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people.
Interplanner
Well-known member
because Israel fell there is a different gospel
Luk 13:9 And if it bears fruit, well; and if not, then after that you shall cut it down.
Jer 18:9 And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it,
Jer 18:10 and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had
via Jews
circumcised and uncircumcised
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
we know there are different rules for the circumcision.
Act 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
future
Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
:blabla:
Mat_4:23 And he went throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and healing every disease and every affliction among the people.
The 'Israel fell so there is a different gospel' is a huge misunderstanding. You don't know the 1st century situation or you wouldn't say it that way. But that's how 2P2P is. it is all a theology overlay that they knew nothing about.
Although you might know the starting point, that they wanted freedom from Rome. In detail, that was the zealots and Judaizers, and they believed any messiah worth mentioning would complete that. So when Christ came with the Lamb of God sacrifice message, it/he was rejected. yet THAT was the kingdom that was always to come.
Can't you see that 2P2P tries to go both ways here, not one and then the other? It tries to think that both parties were right? so it comes up with this idea that he had a gospel ABOUT the kingdom and then that got rejected. He did not, and it doesn't say that. That is a 2nd gen misunderstanding of the grammar. The Greek never says that. The one gospel simply belongs to the kingdom and they both march forward.
But two gospels can't be valid. Why didn't he ever say 'that one is over, another one is coming?'
He refused to be a civic/monarchy king very early on! It never was a plan.
then you have Acts 2:30,31, perfectly clear that David's vision of the enthronement on his throne was the resurrection of Christ. The Davidic king-type was displaced and it needed to be. To assert it at that time in the Roman occupation was a declaration of war.
So there never was that kind of Gospel.
re Acts 15. Follow the direction of the meeting. There is no way X000 years in the future was being inserted. that does not solve anything right then. then never refer back to the 'thing that solves everything here is X000 years in the future' It is 2P2P's routine mistakes in how they do things and grammar and context and follow the action--they usually don't.
As in Gal 2:8-9. It is totally grammatically incorrect there.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So when the Lord Jesus told His disciples to pray in the following manner it had nothing to do with a kingdom coming to the earth?:
"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).
Interplanner
Well-known member
Kingdom or reign, yes. Davidic monarchy or theocracy, no. That is why the parallels are "thy will" and keeping his name sacred.
The answer about the type of blank is to be found in Mk 8:31+. How could Peter rebuke Christ for such a clear explanation of what was to happen--if there had been no explanation? This is where this blank stuff--not knowing, not wanting to talk, not sure what he meant--all starts.
This is also where 'whoever follows me must deny himself' starts, because they have to leave Judaism and what it says the kingdom is.
You'll save yourself a bit of the back and forth, Jer, if you'll pause to reflect a moment on his answering from within his skewed views.
Case in point - you already know his is the "spiritual Israel/spiritual, not literal kingdom" malarky endlessly parroted in his books "about" and their reader's over reliance on same, over the Scripture.
Case in point - you already know his is the "spiritual Israel/spiritual, not literal kingdom" malarky endlessly parroted in his books "about" and their reader's over reliance on same, over the Scripture.
God's Truth
New member
Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. That means that the whole Old Testament was about Jesus. Jesus came to earth and taught the rules and regulations for a New Covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the New Covenant. There were changes to the old one, see Hebrews 7:12.
God's Truth
New member
Peter was quoting old testament scripture.
God's Truth
New member
As Jesus says it is Spiritual.
God's Truth
New member
What don't you get about God not caring anymore about people being blood related to Abraham?
What don't you get about an earthly country not mattering?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This verse speaks of the kingdom which will come to earth and then the will of God will be done in earth as it is in heaven:
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).
If you think that God's will is now being done on the earth as it is in heaven then you are not facing reality but instead you are delusional.
Of course you must somehow get rid of what Peter said at Acts 3:19-20 because it contradicts your preconceived ideas. Please quote what he said there from the OT!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The following verse speaks of a Davidic theocracy but you must somehow get rid of it because you have no place for its fulfillment in your eschatology:
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).
God's Truth
New member
You are the one not facing the Truth.
You make light of Jesus coming the first time and the impact that it had on EVERYTHING.
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Read this:
19For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile toHimself all things, whether things on earth orthings in heaven, by making peace through theblood of His cross.
That is no small matter.
That is no regional matter.
Just listen to Peter! Peter says in 18 that God FULFILLED what he had foretold!
THEN, he speaks right after 19 and 20 how Moses spoke of Jesus, see 22.
Deut. 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.
19I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name.
Acts 3:22
For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your brothers. You must listen to Him in everything He tells you.
Did you read that?!
Peter was speaking about what the old testament said!
Interplanner
Well-known member
I don't "get rid" of it. It gets fulfilled in Christ. don't you realize the title here is the same as Hebrews referring to Melchi Zedek? He does justice through the Gospel (Rom 3:26) and then in the NHNE it will be 'sight.'
Interplanner
Well-known member
If that's delusional Jerry then the whole concept of 'by faith but not by sight' is delusional, as in 2 Cor 5 etc.