The Called !

[God's Truth]

How do you know you're not ensnared? What makes you BELIEVE that someone else is?

You teach what Calvin teaches.

I believe what the scriptures plainly and clearly say.

I want to help you see the truth to know Him better.

 

[j4jesus09]

You teach what Calvin teaches.

I believe what the scriptures plainly and clearly say.

I want to help you see the truth to know Him better.

Appreciate that. Question, in Romans 9 when God said for this purpose He hardened Pharaoh's heart that HE might show His power to Israel. Where does the scripture said pharaoh had a choice to change?

 

[lifeisgood]

Notice that in a very real sense, all four of the following statements are true: (1) God hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (2) Moses hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (3) the words that Moses spoke hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (4) Pharaoh hardened his own heart. All four of these observations are accurate, depicting the same truth from different perspectives. In this sense, God is responsible for everything in the Universe, i.e., He has provided the occasion, the circumstances, and the environment in which all things (including people) operate. But He is not guilty of wrong in so doing. From a quick look at a simple Hebrew idiom, it is clear that God did not unjustly or directly harden Pharaoh’s heart. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), He does not act unjustly (Psalms 33:5), and He has always allowed humans to exercise their free moral agency (Deuteronomy 30:19). God, however, does use the wrong, stubborn decisions committed by rebellious sinners to further His causes (Isaiah 10:5-11). In the case of Pharaoh’s hardened heart, God can be charged with no injustice, and the Bible can be charged with no contradiction. Humans were created with free moral agency and are culpable for their own actions.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1205

 

[j4jesus09]

Notice that in a very real sense, all four of the following statements are true: (1) God hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (2) Moses hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (3) the words that Moses spoke hardened Pharaoh’s heart; (4) Pharaoh hardened his own heart. All four of these observations are accurate, depicting the same truth from different perspectives. In this sense, God is responsible for everything in the Universe, i.e., He has provided the occasion, the circumstances, and the environment in which all things (including people) operate. But He is not guilty of wrong in so doing. From a quick look at a simple Hebrew idiom, it is clear that God did not unjustly or directly harden Pharaoh’s heart. God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34), He does not act unjustly (Psalms 33:5), and He has always allowed humans to exercise their free moral agency (Deuteronomy 30:19). God, however, does use the wrong, stubborn decisions committed by rebellious sinners to further His causes (Isaiah 10:5-11). In the case of Pharaoh’s hardened heart, God can be charged with no injustice, and the Bible can be charged with no contradiction. Humans were created with free moral agency and are culpable for their own actions.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1205

Where does it say humans were created with free moral agency? Also, you leave that fact that there are evil humans. You act as if Goliath was a not child of the devil, Judas wasn't a child of the devil and many more. The word wicked is used of them. Evil. God's children were never called wicked. They may have done what was wicked in the Lord's eyes but they were not described as wicked. You seem to think because we see this skin of flesh and blood, they are just like us. Please answer though were does it sya we are free moral agencies?

 

[lifeisgood]

You can read the rest: http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.CGGWeekly/ID/437/Genesis-1-Free-Moral-Agency.htm

===

This is the eternal picture of man's moral life. God tells us what is right, but then allows us the freedom to determine what we will do. There is no evidence at all that God tricked Adam and Eve into sinning. He did not stack the deck against them, nor did He overpower them. They were free to choose either way. The same act of creation that creates the possibility of moral character also opens the door to sin. Does not God say to Cain in Genesis 4:7, "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

The cause of man's plight is not ignorance of the right, but his own desire, which leads him to substitute his will for the will of God. This simple story illustrates why man's relationship with God has run afoul. By deliberate choice, man separates himself from God, who created him and gives him freedom to choose.

Nothing changes regarding the free-moral agency for the person called of God. When one is forgiven and receives God's Spirit, He does not overpower them. The right to choose freely remains, even as with Adam and Eve. To take away this privilege would truly make the individual a puppet on a string and destroy God's creation of him or her in His spiritual image. God is free to choose and so is man created in God's image. It is this freedom of choice that opens the door for man, through redemption and conversion, to be like God in character.

 

[lifeisgood]

Also, you leave that fact that there are evil humans. You act as if Goliath was a not child of the devil, Judas wasn't a child of the devil and many more. The word wicked is used of them. Evil. God's children were never called wicked. They may have done what was wicked in the Lord's eyes but they were not described as wicked. You seem to think because we see this skin of flesh and blood, they are just like us. Please answer though were does it sya we are free moral agencies?

You must be answering someone else.

 

[j4jesus09]

This is the eternal picture of man's moral life. God tells us what is right, but then allows us the freedom to determine what we will do.

Agreed, to a certain extent. How much freedom?

There is no evidence at all that God tricked Adam and Eve into sinning.

Where I highlighted is the problem. No need to go further.The enemy tricked them. So God is not responsible. The only choice presented to them was do NOT eat of the tree of good and evil. There was no other choice presented to them. Was there? No. The serpent came and presented a new CHOICE and they followed it like a lamb to the slaughter. I'm not reading that thread either. I asked you to tell me where the scriptures says just the way you told me we are free moral agencies. You cannot, because it does not exist. Blessings.

He did not stack the deck against them, nor did He overpower them.

They were free to choose either way. The same act of creation that creates the possibility of moral character also opens the door to sin. Does not God say to Cain in Genesis 4:7, "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

Is this not the truth? Do you think Cain knew that? Maybe Cain forgot. Maybe Cain didn't care. Maybe God reminded him. What caused Cain to be this way? That's the real question? We see obviously there was sin in Cain's heart. So, we see that God told him what was just and the issue in Cain's heart led him to the first murder.
Sorry, no point of free to do what I want here.

The cause of man's plight is not ignorance of the right, but his own desire, which leads him to substitute his will for the will of God. This simple story illustrates why man's relationship with God has run afoul. By deliberate choice, man separates himself from God, who created him and gives him freedom to choose.

I agree that we do make deliberate choices against God but disagree that we always truly know. Where does this desire come from to disobey God? What did we do to pop this desire up? Did we do it ourselves? Did I think up a desire on my own power to disobey God?

Nothing changes regarding the free-moral agency for the person called of God. When one is forgiven and receives God's Spirit, He does not overpower them. The right to choose freely remains, even as with Adam and Eve. To take away this privilege would truly make the individual a puppet on a string and destroy God's creation of him or her in His spiritual image. God is free to choose and so is man created in God's image. It is this freedom of choice that opens the door for man, through redemption and conversion, to be like God in character.

Sorry, this is what you like to believe. I believe it's because of the sinful flesh that wants to be in control. God does run your life either you believe it or you stay deceived. Blessings.

 

[lifeisgood]

Agreed, to a certain extent. How much freedom?

The same as a father gives a son after admonishing him not to do something or he will be punished.

Where I highlighted is the problem. No need to go further.The enemy tricked them. So God is not responsible.

Agreed.

The only choice presented to them was do NOT eat of the tree of good and evil. There was no other choice presented to them. Was there? No.

What other choice was needed? If your dad tells you ‘do not do such and such or you will be punished,’ do you need him to tell you anything else?

The serpent came and presented a new CHOICE and they followed it like a lamb to the slaughter. I'm not reading that thread either.

Adam and Eve followed.
God did not force them to follow the other CHOICE.
They could have gone to their Creator and talk to Him about what was going on. They didn’t. Was that God’s fault? No!

I asked you to tell me where the scriptures says just the way you told me we are free moral agencies. You cannot, because it does not exist. Blessings.

God did and you chose to not accept that, and that you can do just like the rest of us. God will not force you to agree with Him. God says, 'do not murder.' Do need another choice?

Is this not the truth? Do you think Cain knew that? Maybe Cain forgot. Maybe Cain didn't care. Maybe God reminded him. What caused Cain to be this way? That's the real question? We see obviously there was sin in Cain's heart. So, we see that God told him what was just and the issue in Cain's heart led him to the first murder.

Absolutely, Cain knew what he was doing when he murdered his brother.

Sorry, no point of free to do what I want here.

Yes, what ‘you want.’

I agree that we do make deliberate choices against God but disagree that we always truly know.

Do you not always know when you do something wrong?
Does not your conscience bother you?

Where does this desire come from to disobey God?

From our dad, Adam, who knowingly did what he knew he should not have done and we are his children, therefore, have his same DNA.

What did we do to pop this desire up?

Nothing, daddy Adam gave it to us.

Did we do it ourselves?

Yes, we do it ourselves.

Did I think up a desire on my own power to disobey God?

It comes naturally; it is part of our nature; we don’t even have to think about it.

Sorry, this is what you like to believe. I believe it's because of the sinful flesh that wants to be in control.

Yes, the sinful flesh wants to be in control and where is that sinful flesh? We come with it.

God does run your life either you believe it or you stay deceived. Blessings.

If God ran my life, I would never, ever, go against Him.
I would be perfect as Jesus Christ was perfect.
I would never, ever commit a sinful act.

However, because God does NOT run my life, I am always having to go back to Him and ask Him to forgive me for my bad deeds. The closer I get to Him, the more my conscience tells me BEFORE I put both feet inside mouth. The choice to listen to my conscience, which is God’s voice, belongs to me.

 

[j4jesus09]

The same as a father gives a son after admonishing him not to do something or he will be punished.

So it's limited freedom. Not freewill or freedom of choices. you may be in love with the thought you can do whatever, but go ahead try it. You can't because God hasn't created you that way.

What other choice was needed? If your dad tells you ‘do not do such and such or you will be punished,’ do you need him to tell you anything else?

Ummm yes. God tells us things over and over just as we do our sons until they get the understanding.

Adam and Eve followed.
God did not force them to follow the other CHOICE.
They could have gone to their Creator and talk to Him about what was going on. They didn’t. Was that God’s fault? No!

Yes, they followed because they were deceived. Why didn't they go to their creator?

God did and you chose to not accept that, and that you can do just like the rest of us. God will not force you to agree with Him. God says, 'do not murder.' Do need another choice?

Romans 9:19 says Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Where do you get the notion God does not force us to agree with Him from scripture? Because God doesn't physically reach down and shake us. Do you think God doesn't get our attention spiritually? Do you think God won't shake our lives up with circumstances to get our attention? Would you call that's forceful or God trying to show you His love and you need for Him?

Do you not always know when you do something wrong?
Does not your conscience bother you?

You don't always understand. That is what God wants us to have, is understanding. With your getting, get wisdom.



Nothing, daddy Adam gave it to us.



Yes, we do it ourselves.



It comes naturally; it is part of our nature; we don’t even have to think about it.



Yes, the sinful flesh wants to be in control and where is that sinful flesh? We come with it.

If God ran my life, I would never, ever, go against Him.
I would be perfect as Jesus Christ was perfect.
I would never, ever commit a sinful act.

God does run your life. You aren't like Jesus Christ because you were born of a sinful nature. Jesus wasn't. He had the mind like God's which is what we are growing into.

However, because God does NOT run my life, I am always having to go back to Him and ask Him to forgive me for my bad deeds. The closer I get to Him, the more my conscience tells me BEFORE I put both feet inside mouth. The choice to listen to my conscience, which is God’s voice, belongs to me.

So as a man thinks, so is he. If you don't think God runs your life you are mistaken. Jesus was born of God. We can't compare to Jesus. He just wants you to develop the mind of Christ and overcome sins through the power of the Holy Spirit. That's the key. God said the heart of the king is in His hands to turn wherever He chooses, you certainly aren't in the status of a king or high authority. So if He can turn a kings heart He can certainly turn yours.

 

[lifeisgood]

So it's limited freedom. Not freewill or freedom of choices. you may be in love with the thought you can do whatever, but go ahead try it. You can't because God hasn't created you that way.

I do not look at it as limited freedom when my dad tells me not to do something he knows it is harmful to me. My total freedom comes because I do obey him.

Ummm yes. God tells us things over and over just as we do our sons until they get the understanding.

Yes. However, sometimes we as children go our own way and we get in trouble.

Yes, they followed because they were deceived. Why didn't they go to their creator?

Eve was deceived; Adam knew what was going to happen.

Adam and Eve were created as adults, not as children. They had full mental capacity, they had the ability to have meaningful conversation with God and the ability to understand what was being conveyed.

They chose not to do that.

Romans 9:19 says Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Where do you get the notion God does not force us to agree with Him from scripture? Because God doesn't physically reach down and shake us. Do you think God doesn't get our attention spiritually? Do you think God won't shake our lives up with circumstances to get our attention? Would you call that's forceful or God trying to show you His love and you need for Him?

I would say that when God uses my circumstances to wake me up to Him, He is showing me His love for me. However, I have never felt Him grabbing me by the neck and ‘forcing’ me ever.

You don't always understand. That is what God wants us to have, is understanding. With your getting, get wisdom.

Yes, God wants us to understand. That is why He repeats Himself so many times in His Word.

God does run your life.

Can’t agree with you on this one. God never tells me when to eat, when to sleep, which friends to choose, which career to choose, etc., etc.

You aren't like Jesus Christ because you were born of a sinful nature. Jesus wasn't. He had the mind like God's which is what we are growing into.

Agreed.

So as a man thinks, so is he. If you don't think God runs your life you are mistaken.

If God ran my life, my life would be perfect, because God is perfect. He would not permit me to make a mistake, as He is perfect. As I am not perfect, my life is not perfect, and I do make mistakes, I came to the conclusion that God does not run my life.

Jesus was born of God. We can't compare to Jesus. He just wants you to develop the mind of Christ and overcome sins through the power of the Holy Spirit. That's the key.

Agreed.

God said the heart of the king is in His hands to turn wherever He chooses, you certainly aren't in the status of a king or high authority. So if He can turn a kings heart He can certainly turn yours.

Absolutely He can turn my heart, but He has never forced me to change my heart. He wants His children to be in agreement with Him.

Do you ever ‘force’ your children to do what you want them to do? No!
You ask, you explain, you chastise, you cajole, you push, you pull, etc., but do you ‘force’ them?

My God ask, explain, chastise, cajole me, push me, pulls me, but He never ‘forces’ me. He is patient with me until I understand and agree with Him and turn from my evil ways, however, he never ‘forces’ me to do what I do not want to.

Also, He will not stop me from going through the consequences of going against what He wants from me.

 

[j4jesus09]

I do not look at it as limited freedom when my dad tells me not to do something he knows it is harmful to me. My total freedom comes because I do obey him.

Amen, liberty in Christ.

Yes. However, sometimes we as children go our own way and we get in trouble.

Agreed.

Eve was deceived; Adam knew what was going to happen.

Adam and Eve were created as adults, not as children. They had full mental capacity, they had the ability to have meaningful conversation with God and the ability to understand what was being conveyed.

They chose not to do that.

How do you know Adam comprehended what was going to happen? Why did they choose not to?

I would say that when God uses my circumstances to wake me up to Him, He is showing me His love for me. However, I have never felt Him grabbing me by the neck and ‘forcing’ me ever.

Love is a force. He forces you with His love to get right. I thank God for that. Force is not a negative as we always tend to look at it today.

Yes, God wants us to understand. That is why He repeats Himself so many times in His Word.

yep

Can’t agree with you on this one. God never tells me when to eat, when to sleep, which friends to choose, which career to choose, etc., etc.

.

He doesn't tell you He just orders your footsteps. Basically He directed your mind to wherever it is that you choose to eat, sleep, etc.

If God ran my life, my life would be perfect, because God is perfect. He would not permit me to make a mistake, as He is perfect. As I am not perfect, my life is not perfect, and I do make mistakes, I came to the conclusion that God does not run my life.

Your life is perfect in Christ. God can still run your life and permit you to make a mistake. We can't be perfect because of our fallen nature. If you came to the conclusion that God does not run your life, then I suggest you start letting Him run your life.



Agreed.

Absolutely He can turn my heart, but He has never forced me to change my heart. He wants His children to be in agreement with Him.

God say HE turns the kings heart WHEREVER HE CHOOSES. Where did you get out of that scripture He won't force you. It didn't say as long as the king is in agreement.

Do you ever ‘force’ your children to do what you want them to do? No!
You ask, you explain, you chastise, you cajole, you push, you pull, etc., but do you ‘force’ them?

Yes of course with love though. If I feel like it will hurt my child, you are dang right I will force them. They will come to understand later. I have a 8,7,7,and 3 year old. And sometimes it's needed.

Proverbs 23:13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

My God ask, explain, chastise, cajole me, push me, pulls me, but He never ‘forces’ me. He is patient with me until I understand and agree with Him and turn from my evil ways, however, he never ‘forces’ me to do what I do not want to. Also, He will not stop me from going through the consequences of going against what He wants from me.

If God does all these things to you what makes you think He is not forcing you in a gentle loving and kind manner. God can force you through ways unimaginable. The problem is you think force is strictly about dogmatic, punch you in the mouth, you better get right. He might do that to if you need it. You should read the story of Balaam and the donkey. Since you think God doesn't force. What did the angel of the Lord do. Had his sword drawn. God caused the donkey to kick throw Balaam off and had the donkey talk. God runs it all. We would be mindful to focus and believe that.

 

[lifeisgood]

How do you know Adam comprehended what was going to happen?

If the Bible tells me that Adam was not deceived (1 Timothy 2:14), that means that he did comprehend what was going to happen. He chose to rebel against God's instructions because of his free will.

Why did they choose not to?

They were created with free will and they used it.

Love is a force. He forces you with His love to get right. I thank God for that. Force is not a negative as we always tend to look at it today.

Yes, love is a force. However, love does not force.

He doesn't tell you He just orders your footsteps. Basically He directed your mind to wherever it is that you choose to eat, sleep, etc.

I do not agree. It this is true, then He would have created me as a robot.

Your life is perfect in Christ. God can still run your life and permit you to make a mistake. We can't be perfect because of our fallen nature. If you came to the conclusion that God does not run your life, then I suggest you start letting Him run your life.

I do not believe God wants to run my life. I believe He wants me to want to follow Him.

God say HE turns the kings heart WHEREVER HE CHOOSES. Where did you get out of that scripture He won't force you. It didn't say as long as the king is in agreement.

God can do anything He wants, however, I do not believe God, even though He turns the king’s heart, that He does the turning by force.

Yes of course with love though. If I feel like it will hurt my child, you are dang right I will force them. They will come to understand later. I have a 8,7,7,and 3 year old. And sometimes it's needed.

Proverbs 23:13 Do not withhold correction from a child,
For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die.

You can probably ‘force’ your child to do something in a particular moment, but when you are not looking? Then what? His/her free will kicks in. Hopefully, they will believe your instructions and choose to follow them.

If God does all these things to you what makes you think He is not forcing you in a gentle loving and kind manner. God can force you through ways unimaginable. The problem is you think force is strictly about dogmatic, punch you in the mouth, you better get right. He might do that to if you need it. You should read the story of Balaam and the donkey. Since you think God doesn't force. What did the angel of the Lord do. Had his sword drawn. God caused the donkey to kick throw Balaam off and had the donkey talk. God runs it all. We would be mindful to focus and believe that.

If God runs it all, there would not have been a need for Jesus Christ to die on the Cross of Calvary, and we know that He did die on the Cross.

If God runs it all, then there will not be one person in Hell; however, the Bible says otherwise.

If God runs it all, then every single person in the world will be in Heaven; however, we know that is not so.

There is the ‘free will’ God created human beings with that accounts for that rebellion against what God wants and no amount of ‘forcing’ is going to make a person get out of that rebellion, IMO.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Predestination appears like everywhere in the Bible.

I avoided believing it for a long time but I don't understand how I did that...

 

[lifeisgood]

Predestination appears like everywhere in the Bible.

I avoided believing it for a long time but I don't understand how I did that...

What is predestined is the Plan of Salvation, not the person.

If you are in the predestined Plan of Salvation, then you have become predestined because you are in Christ.

God would be unjust if he sent part of His Own Creation to Hell with no fault of their own, wouldn't you say?

 

[beloved57]

The Called, and Chosen, and Faithful !

The Called, and Chosen, and Faithful !

Rev 17:14

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

All whom God chose in Christ before the foundation as per Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now each of them chosen in Christ before the foundation, shall in time, sometime during their earthly pilgrimage or existence, before physical death claims them [therefore preserved/kept Jude 1:1], they shall be called to be saints 1 Cor 1:2,24

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

They are called to be saints by the Gospel and the Spirit, and at that call they are converted and made Faithful, they shall faithfully follow Christ.

That word faithful in Rev 17:14 is the word pistos and means:

"faithful, to be trusted, reliable

in the Active sense means "believing, trusting;"

It basically denotes they shall live by Faith permanently, always trusting and relying upon the promises of God in Christ.

The key to this blessedness is once having been chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4. It does not matter who, when or where, if Chosen in Him before the foundation, they shall become faithful or believers, and that constantly and permanently.

 

[beloved57]

The Called, and Chosen, and Faithful ! 2

The Called, and Chosen, and Faithful ! 2

There is only one call when it comes to Salvation, but that one Call serves two distinct purposes, one for Salvation [In the case of the Elect] and in this case it [The Call] is accompanied with the Working of the Spirit, bringing the Gospel Called Elect into the belief of the Truth or to the obedience of Faith. 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, the Call of the Gospel here Vs 14 issues into belief of the Truth Vs 13 !

However this same Gospel call that issues into belief of the Truth to the Chosen, it is to the non elect a stumbling block, not a call to faith, but to accountability in believing the Testimony of the Gospel of God.

God is not calling them[non elect] to Gospel obedience, He is not interested in them obeying the Gospel simply because He made them the children of disobedience Eph 2:2; In the greek it reads the sons of the disobedience denoting by the definite article that they are specifically a group marked out for disobedience, like what Peter mentions here 1 Pet 2:8

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

God does not appoint people to disobedience and then change His Mind and Call them to obedience !

That word appointed means destined to be ! Now they, the children of disobedience are all those who contrary to the Chosen to Salvation, are appointed to wrath 1 Thess 5:9

For God hath not appointed us to wrath[as some He did], but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The word appointed here is the same as in 1 Pet 2:8. God is not interested in any obedience to those He purposed to disobedience, for that would be contrary to His Divine Purpose for them, for He has appointed them to wrath, and that they shall not obey the Gospel and be saved as Per 2 Thess 2:9-12

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God's will for them is to always believe a lie, what is false, which He Himself sends them strong delusion to believe, no matter how much the do hear the Truth. But unto them God hath Chosen from the Beginning [of the World] to Salvation, they are contrary to those not chosen, they are called by the Gospel to belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thats the contrast between the Elect and non elect within the Gospel Call, one it is for their Salvation and the other for their accountability and condemnation !

 

[beloved57]

The Called, and Chosen, and Faithful ! 3

The Called, and Chosen, and Faithful ! 3

Now Election or being Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation is the ground of our calling by the Gospel Eph 1:4,13, but we cannot know of our Election of God until we are called, Thats why Paul writes here 1 Thess 1:4-5

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

So Paul knows they were chosen by their reception of the Gospel.

Peter writes 2 Pet 1:10

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Because He knows that the Elect are Called Acts 2:39

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Which call is amongst both jews and gentiles Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So calling that results in belief of the Truth, that call gives evidence of our Election of God, so Peter says to them make your calling and election sure; Calling occurs in time, but Election before time, and those who believe, are caused to be Faithful.

 

[beloved57]

Even as many as the Lord our God shall call !

Even as many as the Lord our God shall call !

Acts 2:39,47

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Not all men are called of the Lord to be saved ! Thats why Peter wisely says under the guidance of the Spirit here " even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

For this particular Call is only for a remnant out of mankind, as is stated here Joel 2:32

32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

What remnant is meant here ? First it means this remnant Rom 11:5

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

A remnant according to the Election of Grace from amongst the jews, the physical seed of Abraham, BUT also it applies equally to a remnant according to the Election of Grace from amongst non jews, Gentiles who are of Abraham's Spiritual Seed Acts 15:14-18

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Remember Paul's writing to the Church at Corinth which included Gentiles, He called them the Called 1 Cor 1:22-24

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

In the greek its the called , with the definite article, so its only one specific called people !

The called here is from amongst the jews and the greeks /gentiles ! Its stated here also in Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

This call is not to all mankind in general and all without exception, but is restricted to the Remnant according to Election of Grace from amongst the jews and the Gentiles.

This Call is under the New Covenant administration of the Gospel.

Now one last point needs to looked at and understood in regards to the Called here Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The Call here is under the Old Covenant administration, and it regards mainly to the Physical Nation of Israel, which was a called out assembly, a Church Acts 7:38

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

The word church here is the greek word ekklésia:

an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers

And its made up of Two Greek words ek or ex which means:

from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards

And the word kaleó which means:

I call, summon, invite, (b) I call, name.

So Israel National were the called out ones.

And that is the Many that were called, but within that Nation, only few belonged to the Chosen of God or His Elect, those Chosen to Salvation through Christ.

Remember the called out assembly from egypt and through the red sea under Moses ? It was Many, a large multitude, but only a few of them were Chosen of God to Salvation, and its always been like that throughout OT history of Israel the Nation. Remember Elijah's day ? Paul refers to it here Rom 11:2-5

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

During Isaiah time Isa 1:9

9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

That means few were chosen in Israel. So the matt 22:14 passage means many jews were called into assembly, but few belonged to the Chosen Remnant, the Election of Grace !

 

[beloved57]

Ye also the called of Jesus Christ !

Ye also the called of Jesus Christ !

Rom 1:1-7

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

God has a special called people, special to Him above all other People in the World, we know them in the scripture as God's Own Elect, but also they are known in scripture as " the called of Jesus Christ" for they are as Paul was here called by Grace Gal 1:15

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

Also, note : Those who are eventually called by God's Grace, had a Covenant Relationship with God through Christ from their Mothers Womb as the writer of Psalms states here Ps 22:10

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Now this Grace whereby they are Called by, it was given to them in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

*** with the call of the Apostle on the road to Damascus, and effectual call of Grace is issued to all the Elect of God, The Vessels of Mercy, in fact its given to all who are the Called of Jesus Christ, the Head of His Body the Church , as was Paul Rom 1:1

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Now understand, even though all the Called of Jesus Christ are not called to the role of an Apostle as was Paul, they nevertheless were called and set in the Body as an gifted member as was Paul and the other Apostles 1 Cor 12:27-28

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

All of Christ's members of His Body are equally important to Him,even though some may have more prominent roles, for example, the baby toe is just as important as the arm, though the arm plays a much prominent part in the function of the Body !

So when the lesser role members are called, they are called just as effectually and set into their role in the Body as were the Apostles. In Vs 28 the word set is used , its the greek word Tithemi and means:

to make (or set) for one's self or for one's use

to set, fix establish to set forth
to establish, ordain

It means appointed for Jesus Christ's Use, it means Chosen. Remember It was said of Paul here Acts 9:15

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

That's how it is with every member of Christ's Body, but the difference being all the Members of His Body were not chosen to the same Role of an Apostle as Paul was here !

Now with this said, what is often overlooked and neglected is the fact the Paul makes it clear that the Roman believers had also been the recipient of the same kind of effectual call as he himself had been, when he writes in Rom 1:6

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

They are in fact as described here Isa 48:12

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Later Paul says of both jew and gentile believers including himself Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

The Us here stands for the Called of Jesus Christ , Paul was called just like the ordinary believer was, Just to a higher role as an Apostle , for he was no more an Vessel of Mercy as they were, for all of God's Vessels of Mercy are very Special to Him !

 

[God's Truth]

Appreciate that. Question, in Romans 9 when God said for this purpose He hardened Pharaoh's heart that HE might show His power to Israel. Where does the scripture said pharaoh had a choice to change?

If Pharaoh were born without the capability of choosing God, as Calvinists claim, then why would God need to harden a heart that could not believe anyway?