Summer Wonderland at BEL

[Nightsongs]

What you, and others fail to understand, is that those children who turn away were not trained up in the way they should go.:nono: They were trained in lies, as you were.

Oh really??

You might want to rethink that statement, as many would find it objectionable, plus you are attacking people very close to you. (hint.....hint.....)

Let's see how HONEST you are. Has any of Bob Enyarts children strayed away? Either past or present?

I know the answer to that one!

 

[Nightsongs]

All your so-called questions are "standard practice" and repeated over and over in an attempt to defend your beliefs.

I asked YOU a question, which still hasn't been answered.

Can a Christian live a complete & honorable Christian life without ever getting involved in politics?

 

[Nightsongs]

I'll simplify this for you. If you saw a man come up from behind a woman with a raised knife with a clear intent to murder her, would you try to stop him, or would you think that trying to stop him would be a nonchristian political act?

If you saw a man come up from behind a woman with a raised knife with a clear intent to murder her, knowing that you would have to use deadly force (shoot him) to
stop him, would you use deadly force to prevent a murder?

Your answer: YES

Why is it right and just to use deadly force to protect innocent life in the above scenario but when it comes to abortion you become a hypocrite and refuse to use deadly force in order to protect innocent life from murder?

Both the woman and child are in imminent danger of murder. In the instance of the woman, you claim it is your duty as a Christian to intervene and if needed use deadly force in order to protect the innocent woman from being murdered.

Yet when it comes to the child, you become a hypocrite and then switch your stance and all of a sudden the innocent child is not worthy of protection of murder by use of deadly force as the woman was.

 

[The Graphite]

If you saw a man come up from behind a woman with a raised knife with a clear intent to murder her, knowing that you would have to use deadly force (shoot him) to
stop him, would you use deadly force to prevent a murder?

Your answer: YES

Why is it right and just to use deadly force to protect innocent life in the above scenario but when it comes to abortion you become a hypocrite and refuse to use deadly force in order to protect innocent life from murder?

Both the woman and child are in imminent danger of murder. In the instance of the woman, you claim it is your duty as a Christian to intervene and if needed use deadly force in order to protect the innocent woman from being murdered.

Yet when it comes to the child, you become a hypocrite and then switch your stance and all of a sudden the innocent child is not worthy of protection of murder by use of deadly force as the woman was.

Certainly it would be justified.

However, when sidewalk counselors are standing completely off the property of the abortion clinic, it's virtually impossible to know whether or when an abortion is imminent inside the clinic behind closed doors and shuttered windows, thereby depriving sidewalk counselors of that knowledge necessary to justify such an act.

So, the two situations are hardly analogous.

 

[Wamba]

If we stormed Planned Parenthood and put a bullet in the abortionist's head, we would be condemning many babies to death. That's why we don't do it. We would be making it harder for ourselves and people across the United States to save children, and many babies would die because we killed that man. You are just stupid if you think that killing abortionists is a good plan of action to end abortion. When people do that, the world hates pro-lifers more, and they make it harder for us when women are going inside the walls of Planned Parenthood. They use that against us for decades and decades.

So we try as hard as we can to stop the people from having their children killed, but blowing the doctor's brains out would only set everyone back years.

Does he deserve it? Undoubtably. But, if you ran in there and killed him, you would be effectively doing his job for him but better. He would now be a martyr, and we couldn't save babies anymore.

 

[Granite]

If we stormed Planned Parenthood and put a bullet in the abortionist's head, we would be condemning many babies to death. That's why we don't do it. We would be making it harder for ourselves and people across the United States to save children, and many babies would die because we killed that man. You are just stupid if you think that killing abortionists is a good plan of action to end abortion. When people do that, the world hates pro-lifers more, and they make it harder for us when women are going inside the walls of Planned Parenthood. They use that against us for decades and decades.

So we try as hard as we can to stop the people from having their children killed, but blowing the doctor's brains out would only set everyone back years.

Does he deserve it? Undoubtably. But, if you ran in there and killed him, you would be effectively doing his job for him but better. He would now be a martyr, and we couldn't save babies anymore.

Ummm. So murder being wrong and making yourself a vigilante aren't reasons for killing an abortion. At least, they're not good enough reasons for you to mention. Interesting.

 

[Granite]

Oh really??

You might want to rethink that statement, as many would find it objectionable, plus you are attacking people very close to you. (hint.....hint.....)

Let's see how HONEST you are. Has any of Bob Enyarts children strayed away? Either past or present?

I know the answer to that one!

What about Randall Terry's kids? Did he or did he not raise them up in the right manner?

 

[Nightsongs]

Certainly it would be justified.

However, when sidewalk counselors are standing completely off the property of the abortion clinic, it's virtually impossible to know whether or when an abortion is imminent inside the clinic behind closed doors and shuttered windows, thereby depriving sidewalk counselors of that knowledge necessary to justify such an act.

So, the two situations are hardly analogous.

Nice try but NO CIGAR!

You are diverting and you are a hypocrite.

I can guarantee which woman are arriving there to abort their child. Why is it right and just to use deadly force to protect innocent life in the previous scenario but when it comes to abortion you become a hypocrite and refuse to use deadly force in order to protect innocent life from murder?

Both the woman and child are in imminent danger of murder. In the instance of the woman, you claim it is your duty as a Christian to intervene and if needed use deadly force in order to protect the innocent woman from being murdered.

Yet when it comes to the child, you become a hypocrite and then switch your stance and all of a sudden the innocent child is not worthy of protection of murder by use of deadly force as the woman was.

 

[Wamba]

Ummm. So murder being wrong and making yourself a vigilante aren't reasons for killing an abortion. At least, they're not good enough reasons for you to mention. Interesting.

:chuckle: Actually, yes. Those are good reasons, but I think The Graphite covered that pretty well. I maybe should have said "That's one of the reasons we don't kill abortionists," instead of "the reason."

Becoming a vigilante is not good or just.

 

[Granite]

:chuckle: Actually, yes. Those are good reasons, but I think The Graphite covered that pretty well. I maybe should have said "That's one of the reasons we don't kill abortionists," instead of "the reason."

Becoming a vigilante is not good or just.

Is that because of the repercussions for a vigilante personally, or mostly because of the fallout it would cause the pro-life movement?

 

[Nightsongs]

If we stormed Planned Parenthood and put a bullet in the abortionist's head, we would be condemning many babies to death. That's why we don't do it.

Does he deserve it? Undoubtably. But, if you ran in there and killed him, you would be effectively doing his job for him but better. He would now be a martyr, and we couldn't save babies anymore.

QUESTION FOR YOU -

If you saw a man come up from behind a little 5-year girl with a raised knife with a clear intent to murder her, knowing that you would have to use deadly force (shoot him) to stop him, would you use deadly force to prevent a murder?

 

[Nightsongs]

WAMBA just admitted to the following -

If WAMBA saw a man come up from behind a little 5-year girl with a raised knife with a clear intent to murder her, knowing that he would have to use deadly force (shoot him) to stop him, WAMBA would NOT use deadly force to prevent the murder of that child.

The reason WAMBA would not is the he believes that
you would be effectively doing his job for him but better. The murdered would now be a martyr. It is better for the murderer to stab and murder the 5 year old girl.

WAMBA would as hard as he can to talk to the murderer, even the murderer is 100% intent in killing the 5-year old girl, but using deadly force to stop the murder of the 5-year girl would only set everyone back years.

WAMBA would stand there and watch as the murderer stabbed to death the 5-year old girl.

 

[chickenman]

Nightsong's motives on this thread aside, I think he raises a really thought-provoking idea. If I know for a fact that someone is in my neighbor's house and is about to murder him/her, should I do whatever it takes to stop the crime? If my neighbor is, himself, a murderer and brings someone I don't know into his house in order to murder that person, should I do whatever it takes to stop the crime?

I think the answer to both of these questions is YES.

Should abortion mills be different? I'm not advocating bombing them, or killing an abortionist. But I have to ask myself: What's the difference? I can't say: "I shouldn't do it because it would be illegal trespassing." That wouldn't stop me in the example of my neighbor above. I can't say: "Killing the abortionist is, itself, a crime." That wouldn't stop me in the case of my neighbor above.

Again, I'm not advocating anything here. I'm just saying it's very thought-provoking. Maybe I'm missing something that makes it not so difficult, too. Because it really seems like a dilemma to me.

 

[Granite]

Nightsong's motives on this thread aside, I think he raises a really thought-provoking idea. If I know for a fact that someone is in my neighbor's house and is about to murder him/her, should I do whatever it takes to stop the crime? If my neighbor is, himself, a murderer and brings someone I don't know into his house in order to murder that person, should I do whatever it takes to stop the crime?

I think the answer to both of these questions is YES.

Should abortion mills be different? I'm not advocating bombing them, or killing an abortionist. But I have to ask myself: What's the difference? I can't say: "I shouldn't do it because it would be illegal trespassing." That wouldn't stop me in the example of my neighbor above. I can't say: "Killing the abortionist is, itself, a crime." That wouldn't stop me in the case of my neighbor above.

Again, I'm not advocating anything here. I'm just saying it's very thought-provoking. Maybe I'm missing something that makes it not so difficult, too. Because it really seems like a dilemma to me.

Is the only dilemma, you think, having to face the music for your actions, if only because abortion's legal?

 

[chickenman]

Is the only dilemma, you think, having to face the music for your actions, if only because abortion's legal?

I don't know, Granite. That's not the dilemma I meant, though. Being punished by the law for doing right (breaking an immoral law, for instance) is acceptable to me. That's not the dilemma.

The dilemma is simply discerning what's right and wrong in God's eyes. I honestly don't know, in this case. If God's okay with me doing whatever it takes to stop my neighbor from murdering someone in his home, is He okay with me putting a bullet in an abortionist's head if he's about to chop up a little baby? Or can I blow up his clinic at night when no one's there, to prevent any more killing in that place? Am I justified in God's eyes if I do that? That's my dilemma. Just being honest here.

 

[Granite]

I don't know, Granite. That's not the dilemma I meant, though. Being punished by the law for doing right (breaking an immoral law, for instance) is acceptable to me. That's not the dilemma.

The dilemma is simply discerning what's right and wrong in God's eyes. I honestly don't know, in this case. If God's okay with me doing whatever it takes to stop my neighbor from murdering someone in his home, is He okay with me putting a bullet in an abortionist's head if he's about to chop up a little baby? Or can I blow up his clinic at night when no one's there, to prevent any more killing in that place? Am I justified in God's eyes if I do that? That's my dilemma. Just being honest here.

So murdering an abortionist would be okay in your book if you decided God thought it was okay, as would arson.

How would you know if that's what God wanted you to do? Because Paul Hill was very sure of himself.

 

[chickenman]

So murdering an abortionist would be okay in your book if you decided God thought it was okay, as would arson.

How would you know if that's what God wanted you to do? Because Paul Hill was very sure of himself.

Don't know, Granite. That's the dilemma.

Like I said, I'm not advocating anything. Just an honest question.

 

[Granite]

Don't know, Granite. That's the dilemma.

Like I said, I'm not advocating anything. Just an honest question.

If you "don't know" that it's wrong to murder people and blow up buildings, chickenman, you're a dangerous borderline lunatic and an accident waiting to happen. And quit being so coy. All you're fishing for is someone here to give you an atta-boy and tell you what you want to hear.

 

[chickenman]

If you "don't know" that it's wrong to murder people and blow up buildings, chickenman, you're a dangerous borderline lunatic and an accident waiting to happen. And quit being so coy. All you're fishing for is someone here to give you an atta-boy and tell you what you want to hear.

I have no idea what you're talking about, Granite. I'm not looking for anyone to tell me anything. Don't need any atta-boys. You're reading something into my posts that just isn't there.

If 100 TOL'ers told me, "Yeah, I think we'd be justified in blowing up abortion clinics", that wouldn't help me any, and I wouldn't go out and do anything like that. I simply noted that Nightsongs raised a thought-provoking issue.

Can you not see the parallel in the examples I raised? Right or wrong, can you not see the parallel? If a law were passed that said we are not to, without consent, enter into another's property under ANY condition, even if there is a crime inside, would I still have an obligation to stop a crime in my neighbor's home?

I'm not implying anything, not expressing a desire, just thinking out loud. So stop being...whatever it is that you're being, Granite.

 

[Lighthouse]

Oh really??

You might want to rethink that statement, as many would find it objectionable, plus you are attacking people very close to you. (hint.....hint.....)

Let's see how HONEST you are. Has any of Bob Enyarts children strayed away? Either past or present?

I know the answer to that one!

And? You think Bob would disagree with me?