Summer Wonderland at BEL

[2Tim215]

Open Theism was not invented until around the 1980's with Seventh-day Adventist theologian Richard Rice's book The Openness of God: The Relationship of Divine Foreknowledge and Human Free Will. I question Rice's ability to even understand the Bible, because as a 7th Day Adventists, he doesn't even know the basics of the gospel and our program today.

Rice was the only person to debate O.T. at the ETS. If Rice cannot even discern the law from grace being a 7th Day Adventist, how much more credible is he in regards to discerning who God is and His attributes. The foundation of Rice is built on sand and Bob Enyart built his house on that same sand. Watch how they sink, watch how they sink!

The concept of Open Theism is only 28 years old. I need not say anything further except that I disagree with it and it is only 28 years old.

Did I mention that Open Theism was invented around 28 years ago?

Dr. Norman Geisler's book ‘’Creating God in the Image of Man?’’ shows that Open Theism is a heresy and that the traditional attributes of God are true.

Did I mention that Open Theism was invented around 28 years ago?

I will leave the Open Theism debate for another place. The point of this was that IF Bob Enyart is a Bible scholar then he needs to join the ETS and debate others over at ETS.

He can apply here: http://www.etsjets.org/

Also, he needs to have more than just O.T. positions to debate.

Did I mention that Open Theism is around 28 years old and Dr. Rice is the first person to bring this concept over to the ETS for debate? Mind you, Rice is a 7th Day Adventist, who cannot even understand the basics of law and grace. Who is he to comment on God's attributes? The same goes for Enyart.

Do you see any irony in the fact that you, a dispensationalist (which seems to be the only thing you have a handle on), are using the exact same arguments against Open Theism that have been used against dispensationalism forever?

1) It's a "recent development."
How many times have you heard a covenantalist ridicule the idea of the rapture or dispensationalism generally by saying something like: "Dispensationalism has only been around since the 19th century. It's barely 150 years old! The church didn't believe anything like this for more than 1,800 years!"

2) It was popularized by a man (Disp - John Nelson Darby, OT - Richard Rice) who was in theological error on many other points and who associated with a group (Darby - Plymouth Brethren, Rice - 7th Day Adventists) who had some unbiblical and even, in the case of the Plymouth Brethren, kooky beliefs.

Btw, the reason you resist those who are fighting to end the murder of unborn kids is not due to your understanding of the different callings of Israel and the Body. It stems from the fact that when you see such activity, it reminds you of your apathy towards child killing. And that apathy is the result of your unbiblical view of God, in which every abortion that is performed is ultimately His will, or even actively ordained by Him (if you're a Calvinist).

And, you're flat wrong about God killing children for the sins of their fathers. In fact the children of Israel had a saying to that effect and God rebuked them for it:

"In those days they shall say no more: ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.’ But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge."(Jer. 31:29-30)

 

[Nightsongs]

Nightsongs:
Do you vote?

No.

So if German Christians who acted to save lives against the political desires of their country were not sinning, then why do you think Christians today are sinning when they likewise act to save lives against the political desires of their country? What’s the difference?

It is not a "sin" until one makes it a Christian duty to become an activist against abortion. In other words, if one says the Body of Christ's duty is to fight abortion and then the local assembly puts abortion activism as its primary duty.

There were A LOT of evil political acts being conducted by the Roman government. The Bible shows that the Apostle Paul never, ever, became a political activist and never sought to overthrow Roman law.

 

[Nightsongs]

So, we both agree that killing would be the last resort? I'm glad we're on the same page. :up:

As for calling the police, in my scenario they would come in and protect the murderer, making sure he can carry out his infanticide, so in that case, the analogy completely falls apart, obviously. So, what would you have done in the scenario you wrote for me? Please don't say "call the police?"

As I said before, if I was in the clinic and the doctor was coming, I would not do anything. I would leave the clinic. I am not an activist and I would never be anywhere near the clinic in the first place.

 

[Granite]

Uhm, yeah, that's what I said. I love assault and murder.

And, if someone had tried to fight off the Gestapo as they prepared to shoot children in a Hamburg street, you would accuse that interventionist as someone who thinks "assault and murder" are okay.

Tons of sense.... Heaping gobs of sense. The whole reason I would intervene is because I do not believe assault and murder are okay.

If you don't know the difference between "assault and murder" and stepping in to try to prevent the murder of a helpless human being and using deadly force as a last resort, I can't even begin to help you.

You're thinking of the SS, not the Gestapo. At least get your facts straight before you start with the Nazis references.

You're the one talking about eye gouging and murder, pal. Normally when people advocate criminal activity here there's repercussions. I guess when you fantasize about attacking and killing abortionists the rules change.

 

[Nightsongs]

Do you see any irony in the fact that you, a dispensationalist (which seems to be the only thing you have a handle on), are using the exact same arguments against Open Theism that have been used against dispensationalism forever?

No irony, as OT not only breaks away from "orthodoxy" of the Christian faith, but it enters into the realm of Mormonism. It denies the fundamental truth of God, His Word and His attributes. I hope you are aware that every single dispensational group finds OT as a heresy. Berean Bible Society and Grace Bible College, both find OT heretical.

Btw, the reason you resist those who are fighting to end the murder of unborn kids is not due to your understanding of the different callings of Israel and the Body. It stems from the fact that when you see such activity, it reminds you of your apathy towards child killing. And that apathy is the result of your unbiblical view of God, in which every abortion that is performed is ultimately His will, or even actively ordained by Him (if you're a Calvinist).

More hogwash. You repeat this statement as standard OT gibberish. I am NOT a Calvinist.

And, you're flat wrong about God killing children for the sins of their fathers.

Apparently you never read your Bible. Did children, both unborn and born die in the flood? Did unborn children die when God told the Israelites to kill every man, woman, pregnant woman and child?

Who sins or what deeds did the unborn children do that they had to die for?

 

[Jefferson]

Nightsongs:

The link you posted that was supposed to show Bob Enyart "dragging Christians through the mud who do not get involved in social issues and politics" didn't show any such thing. It was just a link of some of your fellow left wing so-called adults making junior-highschoolish prank calls filled with expletives of which you are fully aware are not allowed on this forum. I edited your link for that reason.

Therefore, you will either provide the actual link that contains the content you claim it does or ...:wave2:

And, by the way, don't try to give me any kind of made up story that you can't find the real link now. I'm not going to believe a junior-highschoolish lie like that.

 

[Jefferson]

:yawn:

See what I mean?

 

[Jefferson]

No.

You don't vote. Wonderful. So, according to your belief in predestination, God decrees that the citizens of the U.S. will actually be a part of what Paul in Romans called "the governing authorities" via their votes and you decide to tell God that He was wrong for designing our government that way, so you refuse to vote.

It is not a "sin" until one makes it a Christian duty to become an activist against abortion. In other words, if one says the Body of Christ's duty is to fight abortion and then the local assembly puts abortion activism as its primary duty.

I don't know anyone who does that.

There were A LOT of evil political acts being conducted by the Roman government. The Bible shows that the Apostle Paul never, ever, became a political activist and never sought to overthrow Roman law.

As I've already stated above and which you cowardly refused to respond to... "They weren't living in a democracy therefore no citizen, Christian, Jew or Greek had any power to change any law. They would have been wasting their time. Additionally, the church was in it's infancy. When a church is in it's infancy and is in survival mode like the 1st century church was, it should be working on the ABC's of survival and not concern itself with church gymnasiums and social change until it has the resources to do so. The church in America today is in a very different situation. It has literally thousands of ministries with billions of dollars in net worth."

 

[Jefferson]

Apparently you never read your Bible. Did children, both unborn and born die in the flood? Did unborn children die when God told the Israelites to kill every man, woman, pregnant woman and child?

Who sins or what deeds did the unborn children do that they had to die for?

Nightsongs, if you build a toy boat, don't you have the right to destroy it and use the parts to build a toy doll house since you are "the creator"?

 

[chickenman]

Wow, were do I start?

Are you sincere in asking "why" Christians should not take money and set it on fire in front of large crowds and do so in the name of God? You ask why Christians should not invoke the name of God and wastefully destroy money?

Our first responsibility is to support our local church (Galatians 6:6; 1 Timothy 5:17,18).

And you ask why is spending $16,000 on OJ junk and then destroying it an unbiblical thing?

Philippians 4:14-19

Yet it was good of you to share in my troubles. Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only; for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid again and again when I was in need. Not that I am looking for a gift, but I am looking for what may be credited to your account. I have received full payment and even more; I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.

Do you think Paul would take the money and gifts and then buy something stupid with it and then destroy it for publicity sake? Paul took the money and gifts and used them for the glory of God and His ministry.

Get real! You need to condemn the man for his actions. Stop defending wicked behavior!

Is it POSSIBLE for a person to ask an honest question or to play Devil's Advocate, Cinderella? Lighten up.

 

[Jefferson]

Nightsongs:

All of your future posts will be deleted until you first respond to post #166 in this thread.

 

[Jefferson]

I was referring to his radio shows.

Then why did you link to his TV show?

And why did you provide a link filled with nothing but caller mockery and expletives?

Since you know fully well that expletives are not tolerated on this forum you will either provide the actual TV link that contains the content you claim it does or ... :wave:

 

[Nightsongs]

Then why did you link to his TV show?

And why did you provide a link filled with nothing but caller mockery and expletives?

Since you know fully well that expletives are not tolerated on this forum you will either provide the actual TV link that contains the content you claim it does or ... :wave:

What link are you talking about? I NEVER said it was a "TV" link. That is another lie you made.

I did not intentionally provide a link to a place where "expletives" were found. If I did, it was an oversight.

I already provided you with a post, which you deleted, that shows you clearly and without a doubt that Enyart makes it a priority for Christians to be activist. My last post, which you conveniently deleted to hide the proof and evidence, had a link to the radio show where he compares those Christians who fail to protest are to the likes of the Pharisees.

I was told by others that if you expose Enyart for who he is, you will be banned. That is what is happening. The truth is starring you in the face and you do nothing but hide it. You will face God for your hypocrisy and for putting a man before God and His Word.

GOODBYE!!!

 

[Lighthouse]

What link are you talking about? I NEVER said it was a "TV" link. That is another lie you made.

I did not intentionally provide a link to a place where "expletives" were found. If I did, it was an oversight.

I already provided you with a post, which you deleted, that shows you clearly and without a doubt that Enyart makes it a priority for Christians to be activist. My last post, which you conveniently deleted to hide the proof and evidence, had a link to the radio show where he compares those Christians who fail to protest are to the likes of the Pharisees.

I was told by others that if you expose Enyart for who he is, you will be banned. That is what is happening. The truth is starring you in the face and you do nothing but hide it. You will face God for your hypocrisy and for putting a man before God and His Word.

GOODBYE!!!

I know Bob. I've met him several times, and even been to his church. I am not an activist. He knows this. He has never compared me to a Pharisee. I believe you are a liar. If that show exists how about you PM me the link...

 

[Jefferson]

What link are you talking about? I NEVER said it was a "TV" link. That is another lie you made.

But it was a TV link. It was a link to his TV show, not his radio show.

I did not intentionally provide a link to a place where "expletives" were found. If I did, it was an oversight.

You're lying.

I already provided you with a post, which you deleted, that shows you clearly and without a doubt that Enyart makes it a priority for Christians to be activist. My last post, which you conveniently deleted to hide the proof and evidence, had a link to the radio show where he compares those Christians who fail to protest are to the likes of the Pharisees.

So post it again when your 24 hour banning period has expired.

I was told by others that if you expose Enyart for who he is, you will be banned. That is what is happening.

Wrong again. You're being banned for 24 hours for uploading profanity just like I would ban anyone else for 24 hours for doing the same thing. It has nothing to do with your dislike of Enyart.

The truth is starring you in the face and you do nothing but hide it. You will face God for your hypocrisy and for putting a man before God and His Word.

GOODBYE!!!

See you in 24 hours unless you're a coward.

 

[Jefferson]

:think: It's been over 24 hours but it still shows that Nightsongs is still banned. I think it automatically ends at midnight the next day instead of exactly 24 hours.

 

[Granite]

He re-registered under a different name. Catty nailed him pronto.

 

[Jefferson]

He re-registered under a different name. Catty nailed him pronto.

What an idiot. All he had to do was wait 1 day and then he could post again. The ban time for a banned member registering under a different name is permanent.

I really want him to finish this debate. I've got an idea. See my next post...

 

[Jefferson]

Nightsongs:

The best way to finish this debate with an unequivocal answer is for you to discuss this issue with Bob on his show. Just call 800-8ENYART Monday through Friday from 5:00 to 5:30 eastern time.