ECT Speaking in tongues

[Danoh]

Yes, they responded to the tongues - that is how their attention was given to Peter. News traveled really quickly that something miraculous was happening and at least 3000 Jews who had come to the required feast of weeks showed up to see it. They were AMAZED AND MARVELED because the disciples were speaking in other languages - their own native languages that they would not know, being Galileans. Then they started asking questions - what is this? what is going on? They doubted what they were seeing. Some even began to mock because it was "other worldly". Then Peter got up and began to explain what was happening and why - the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, the promise of Christ that they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit, and then the Gospel. It was the sign of tongues that got their attention - a sign to the unbelieving Jews.

The story is so amazing, I am really curious why you are arguing with the text! :idunno:

Passages in Matthew 12; Acts 3; Hebrews 2; etc., make it obvious that had only been a foretaste of their world to come.

While passages in Matthew 12; Luke 13; etc., make it just as obvious why that foretaste had been only temporary.

 

[musterion]

As has been told to me, my understanding is that there are segmsents of Mid-Acts disp'ism that refuse to believe God is doing anything miraculous among believers today. He will not heal, He never intervenes in response to petition regarding "worldly matter," nothing. From what I've seen, Richard Jordan may be one example of this mindset; if I'm wrong on that I'm more than willing to receive correction.

Anyway, I've seen nothing in Paul's writings to preclude God answering the prayers of His own as He see fits. Do I believe in guaranteed answer? No. Guaranteed specific answers? Even more so, no. But no answers ever, just because we're under grace? I don't see where Paul said that.

If these reports are as I've understood them, those who believe such are at liberty to do so. I, likewise, am at liberty to believe as I do.

 

[Danoh]

As has been told to me, my understanding is that there are segmsents of Mid-Acts disp'ism that refuse to believe God is doing anything miraculous among believers today. He will not heal, He never intervenes in response to petition regarding "worldly matter," nothing. From what I've seen, Richard Jordan may be one example of this mindset; if I'm wrong on that I'm more than willing to receive correction.

Anyway, I've seen nothing in Paul's writings to preclude God answering the prayers of His own as He see fits. Do I believe in guaranteed answer? No. Guaranteed specific answers? Even more so, no. But no answers ever, just because we're under grace? I don't see where Paul said that.

If these reports are as I've understood them, those who believe such are at liberty to do so. I, likewise, am at liberty to believe as I do.

If you say so.

 

[Danoh]

Seems a bit duplicitous for SOME of you in what amounts to nothing more as to you, as TOL Club MAD Elitists, to take great issue with me when I point a thing out (no matter how I might soften it) though you Club MAD Elitists are ever doing that against other MADs, and not only in your usual one sided in one's face, but without much evidence other than your say so.

And since when does the truly consistent MAD conclude on any issue - including the healing issue - by mere here say and or one's own notions?

The error in approach on the part of some of you in this, together with your one sided duplicity, is, as usual, showing once more.

While I am at it; the reason those of us MADs do not hold to what are nothing more than a residue of how the natural man looks at such things as healings this side of that which is perfect, is not because we "refuse to" but because we have studied the issue out in a manner consistent with studying all things out in light of that which is perfect this side of the full revelation of the Mystery in written form: the full knowledge of our completeness in Christ we ALL NOW have FULL access to the clear understanding of...

Anyone who has bothered to go through The Grace History Project would neither so carelessly assert some MADs simply "refuse to believe in healings" nor endorse such a careless, ignorant, one sided assertion.

If this stings, it only does because you refuse to look at offence, perceived or real, through the Word rightly divided in light of our full completeness in the Lord.

Instead, you allow your flesh to sway you into believing that you are the issue, you have been offended, and its time for payback.

In which case, your response to my words here will matter not; bring them on that I might gladly glory in my infirmities.

In this, thank you for the opportunity your kind's duplicity can only become if I'll walk by faith in my above assertion - in the Word rightly divided as to OUR completeness in Christ.

You have just seen an example of an on the spot healing where such things now really matter...in one's infirmities and those that others and or that life might bring on one.

Yours in Him...a fellow MAD...til Christ be formed in you again...for we each...are to die daily...

 

[andyc]

[/B]
If that's true, why bother saying it? It should be a universal truth, right?

You just don't want to admit he wrote a good post. Because, if you give him the credit that's due him, you'll be admitting, he's correct.

I don't want to admit that he was right about a post putting the boot into me?
Knight was right, you are a moron.

 

[andyc]

Just when I thought you couldn't top yourself, you post the dumbest stuff anybody on planet earth has EVER said. You really outdid yourself this time. You wear your ignorance like a "badge of honor."

Marowbe...I want to tell you that you are a waste of oxygen, but you already know this.
So why don't you just be a good boy and get out of this thread?

If not, post some content in your responses, and not just your usual junk.

 

[musterion]

If you say so.

Well now that's an interesting response, as is your follow up. You evidently took something personal that was not intended personally, toward anyone here. I was referring to no MAD on TOL since I have first hand knowledge of any MAD on TOL belonging to that camp.

But IF you're in that camp, you're at liberty to believe as you do just as I am to believe as I do. Why you'd have a problem with that is beyond me.

One thing I would never do is dismiss you out of hand as superstitious for believing that, IF in fact you do believe that...which, based on your response, I guess you do.

And since when does the truly consistent MAD conclude on any issue - including the healing issue - by mere here say and or one's own notions?

I take it from this statement, then, that the camp that was described to me does indeed exist?

And if it does exist, on what basis do those in that camp conclude that God never intervenes at all in the lives of believers today, if indeed that's what they conclude?

 

[andyc]

Told this story before. When I was a new believer and struggling and suffering under bad doctrine and plain ignorance, lots of doubts assailed me on many fronts, some of them due to the TBN crowd who were still a pretty big thing back in the '90s. The past few generations have been programmed to believe whatever we see in media, whatever it is; that's something that has to be unlearned even in a renewed mind. So the claims of slick bloviating charismatics can be really intimidating to the weak and unlearned.

Well at least you're admitting you're weak and unlearned.
I was a pentecostal back in those days, and i had evangelists praying for me to receive tongues, and i fought them on it from scripture, so I thought. I even had the whole church praying form me to receive tongues, and one evangelist bashing me on the head telling me that I was fighting it. I ended up sitting outside the church in darkness throwing up in the car park because the pressure got too much. I prayed in total sincerity that I would not receive anything that wasn't of God.

Anyway, one day something that felt like an icepick in a kidney dropped me to my knees. Out of nowhere with NO warning at all. I've had some injuries in my life but can't recall ever feeling something as sharp and sudden as that was. It hurt so bad everything instantly started to go white and I was about to pass out.

On my knees, I asked God that, if it's His will, please remove it. Suddenly, it vanished, gone, like it was never there. I'd never had kidney symptoms before that and haven't had anything of that kind since. What was it exactly? Not sure...but God used it to make a point to me that I will never forget. Since that day, I've never once doubted His ability and willingness to heal as He chooses to do so...but directly, not through human "healers." It He doesn't choose to, then the glory is still His because Rom 8:28.

How can faith have a chance if there is not a promise from God?
Hope gives a person a reason to believe.

What id God had said, "you might be saved, it depends on whether I will it or not."?

Naturally, doubts came. Had I imagined it all? No, I knew it was real. So what was it? Could it have been Satan fooling me?

Only answer to that I've ever come up with: If it was Satan, then God had to allow him to injure me since I'm a member of the Body of Christ -- I believe nothing can come to one who is Christ's without God's approval and for the believer's ultimate good. So even if Satan did give that pain AND removed it, it was still by God's will and He got the glory for it.

So why don't you just believe what the word says? 1Pet 2:24

Short version:

100% convinced God still heals as He chooses. Many sound, Grace-gospel believers will attest to having been allowed to experience or to see the same thing.

You do not have scriptural support for a lottery healing theology.

Also 100% convinced that no one who claims any of the miraculous sign gifts the apostles had, actually has them. Not one. If they did, they would NEVER keep those gifts under a bushel, so to speak -- away from the lost who could benefit from them, and away from examination by those who honestly doubt. GREEDILY HOARDING the [purported] miraculous gifts of God brings no glory to Him. They bring glory only to SELF while edifying and serving NO ONE ELSE.

But those like AndyC and LA and Serpent refuse to allow either public display nor examination, and scoff at those who request it. You know why. So do they.

Well, if healing is in the atonement, what you think of me is not really relevant. I will be answerable to God for my own failings, as you will be for yours.

 

[andyc]

Yes, they responded to the tongues - that is how their attention was given to Peter. News traveled really quickly that something miraculous was happening and at least 3000 Jews who had come to the required feast of weeks showed up to see it. They were AMAZED AND MARVELED because the disciples were speaking in other languages - their own native languages that they would not know, being Galileans. Then they started asking questions - what is this? what is going on? They doubted what they were seeing. Some even began to mock because it was "other worldly". Then Peter got up and began to explain what was happening and why - the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, the promise of Christ that they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit, and then the Gospel. It was the sign of tongues that got their attention - a sign to the unbelieving Jews.

The story is so amazing, I am really curious why you are arguing with the text! :idunno:

Well......Paul said...."Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind?"

120 people spoke in tongues on the day of pentecost, and so was Paul wrong, or was the Holy Spirit wrong?

 

[andyc]

As has been told to me, my understanding is that there are segmsents of Mid-Acts disp'ism that refuse to believe God is doing anything miraculous among believers today. He will not heal, He never intervenes in response to petition regarding "worldly matter," nothing. From what I've seen, Richard Jordan may be one example of this mindset; if I'm wrong on that I'm more than willing to receive correction.

Anyway, I've seen nothing in Paul's writings to preclude God answering the prayers of His own as He see fits.

What scriptural basis have you to stand on, that healing is based on God's decision to heal or not to heal?
Are you a part time Calvinist?

Do I believe in guaranteed answer? No. Guaranteed specific answers? Even more so, no. But no answers ever, just because we're under grace? I don't see where Paul said that.

If these reports are as I've understood them, those who believe such are at liberty to do so. I, likewise, am at liberty to believe as I do.

What if you had a child who was very sick, and you had the ability to heal, and you said to your child, "I might heal you, and I might not. It depends how I feel about it".

 

[musterion]

How can faith have a chance if there is not a promise from God?

Who are you to put God in a box built of of the white part of the Bible's pages?

What if you had a child who was very sick, and you had the ability to heal, and you said to your child, "I might heal you, and I might not. It depends how I feel about it".

Romans 8:28, Genesis 18:25, Job 13:15.

See, that's the difference. You try laying hold of God based on promises He never made to you, and if He doesn't cough up, what's your reaction?

 

[andyc]

Seems a bit duplicitous for SOME of you in what amounts to nothing more as to you, as TOL Club MAD Elitists, to take great issue with me when I point a thing out (no matter how I might soften it) though you Club MAD Elitists are ever doing that against other MADs, and not only in your usual one sided in one's face, but without much evidence other than your say so.

And since when does the truly consistent MAD conclude on any issue - including the healing issue - by mere here say and or one's own notions?

The error in approach on the part of some of you in this, together with your one sided duplicity, is, as usual, showing once more.

While I am at it; the reason those of us MADs do not hold to what are nothing more than a residue of how the natural man looks at such things as healings this side of that which is perfect, is not because we "refuse to" but because we have studied the issue out in a manner consistent with studying all things out in light of that which is perfect this side of the full revelation of the Mystery in written form: the full knowledge of our completeness in Christ we ALL NOW have FULL access to the clear understanding of...

Anyone who has bothered to go through The Grace History Project would neither so carelessly assert some MADs simply "refuse to believe in healings" nor endorse such a careless, ignorant, one sided assertion.

If this stings, it only does because you refuse to look at offence, perceived or real, through the Word rightly divided in light of our full completeness in the Lord.

Instead, you allow your flesh to sway you into believing that you are the issue, you have been offended, and its time for payback.

In which case, your response to my words here will matter not; bring them on that I might gladly glory in my infirmities.

In this, thank you for the opportunity your kind's duplicity can only become if I'll walk by faith in my above assertion - in the Word rightly divided as to OUR completeness in Christ.

You have just seen an example of an on the spot healing where such things now really matter...in one's infirmities and those that others and or that life might bring on one.

Yours in Him...a fellow MAD...til Christ be formed in you again...for we each...are to die daily...

Do us a favor, go to your library and burn all your mad books. Stam, feldick, and whoever else. Then buy a bible.

 

[andyc]

Who are you to put God in a box built of of the white part of the Bible's pages?

Because without a word from God, there can be no hope.
If you went to a doctor looking for a cure, and he said that there was no cure, you are doomed.
But if he gave you a chance of life, that would be a word of hope.
And so, you have to be sure that God has a word of hope in scripture, otherwise you do not know whether to believe or not.

Psalms 107:20 He sent His word and healed them, And delivered them from their destructions.

 

[Danoh]

What scriptural basis have you to stand on, that healing is based on God's decision to heal or not to heal?
Are you a part time Calvinist?

What if you had a child who was very sick, and you had the ability to heal, and you said to your child, "I might heal you, and I might not. It depends how I feel about it".

Admittedly, his is that part of the MADist who remains unaware of the need to carefully compare when's thoughts on any issue in light of the Word rightly divided: not only as to the Believer's full, total, and absolute completeness in Christ; but of the Believer's complete access to understanding all issues from there, and with absolute clarity.

Just a matter of time in the Word in light of said full access.

A failure on his part much like your own; though obviously no where near your great failure.

 

[musterion]

Let's wrap this up, boys.

If someone wants to demonstrate where Paul taught that God will not directly involve Himself in the practical concerns of a believer's life under this dispensation of grace, or because we're under grace, I'm more than willing to listen. Make with the chapter and verse.

 

[andyc]

Admittedly, his is that part of the MADist who remains unaware of the need to carefully compare when's thoughts on any issue in light of the Word rightly divided: not only as to the Believer's full, total, and absolute completeness in Christ; but of the Believer's complete access to understanding all issues from there, and with absolute clarity.

Just a matter of time in the Word in light of said full access.

A failure on his part much like your own; though obviously no where near your great failure.

Well, seeing as you do not have a scriptural argument proving that God doesn't heal today, why should we take you seriously?

 

[Danoh]

Do us a favor, go to your library and burn all your mad books. Stam, feldick, and whoever else. Then buy a bible.

Sorry o clueless one, but Stam was a walk by sight confirmation bias believer in healing; as is Feldick.

Both of which resort to your same kind of rationalizing about a thing projected into it; when it comes to that.

 

[andyc]

Let's wrap this up, boys.

If someone wants to demonstrate where Paul taught that God will not directly involve Himself in the practical concerns of a believer's life under this dispensation of grace, or because we're under grace, I'm more than willing to listen. Make with the chapter and verse.

Because it's by grace through faith.
Remove faith, and you have grace on it's own. That is like a doctor giving you tablets, and you assuming that him giving tablets will heal you.
No, you have to swallow them in faith.

 

[Danoh]

Well, seeing as you do not have a scriptural argument proving that God doesn't heal today, why should we take you seriously?

If the MADs who hold to healing can't see the obvious that MAD allows one to see; you have no hope of seeing it.

None. Zippo. Nada.

 

[musterion]

Well, seeing as you do not have a scriptural argument proving that God doesn't heal today, why should we take you seriously?

That's all I'm asking for here.

Let's forget your side's claims to the SIGN GIFTS of whatever miraculous power, exhibited during the Gospels and Acts. That isn't the point here.

I want to know where Paul said God will not directly do as He chooses to do in the lives of His own, up to and including intervention. I don't see it but perhaps I've overlooked it.