Some electors flipped after all

[Alate_One]

You want to go preach Christian, go preach it to your God hating, countrymen betraying, slandering imbeciles you defend. I'm not going to hear your hypocritical bullcrap :wave2:

Explain how I have been hypocritical, specifically. You claim to be a Christian and give all evidence of hating people due to their national origin. Is that Christlike? No. But it is Trumplike. Trump is your new messiah then, not Christ. You put him before God.

 

[Crucible]

Stop embarrassing yourselves, liberals. You insulted half your country, protested against them, slandered, sued, anon anon- take accountability for your nonsense, and accept why you lost.

 

[Alate_One]

Stop embarrassing yourselves, liberals.

That's not hypocrisy, it's the truth. Not everyone that voted for Trump is a bigot, but you've revealed yourself to be one. Losing the vote in some critical swing states (by a few thousand) does not make you morally right.

 

[rocketman]

well, we should

i'd like to see a mandatory civics class in high school (my state already has one) that you would have to pass with 100% in order to be allowed to register to vote

you would be allowed to repeat the class (it would be offered for adults) and you could take the test as often as you needed to

Sadly we live in a nation that has failed miserably in educating people on the constitutional system of government that we live under. Most that are whining about the electoral system that framers set up fail to understand that it was debated extensively and the popular vote system was rejected in three separate votes at the constitutional convention by super majorities in every instance, in fact I believe it was Rhode Island but, anyway, one state originally refused to ratify the constitution if a popular vote system existed. This issue was thoroughly debated, there are lots of extraneous writings by the framers on it as well.

 

[rocketman]

Losing the vote in some critical swing states (by a few thousand) does not make you morally right.

Nor does it make you morally right either...stupid thing to say.

 

[Alate_One]

Sadly we live in a nation that has failed miserably in educating people on the constitutional system of government that we live under. Most that are whining about the electoral system that framers set up fail to understand that it was debated extensively and the popular vote system was rejected in three separate votes at the constitutional convention by super majorities in every instance, in fact I believe it was Rhode Island but, anyway, one state originally refused to ratify the constitution if a popular vote system existed. This issue was thoroughly debated, there are lots of extraneous writings by the framers on it as well.

And that doesn't make the EV fair or relevant for the nation today.

I think people need to recognize that the framers were not especially virtuous or smart people for their time. They were people like us but also a product of their time. They also refused to ratify a constitution that didn't count slaves as 3/5 of a person. The electoral college thus also gave slaveholding states an advantage by counting population towards electors while not allowing them to vote. The framers also only really thought white male landholders should be voting.

So lets not pretend that the constitution hasn't needed amendments. Plus I would argue the amendment process is too difficult, leaving the court system as overly powerful over the nation. Our system of government is in dire need of reform but it's tremendously difficult to do, especially in a way that will actually make the system better.

 

[Alate_One]

Nor does it make you morally right either...stupid thing to say.

No, the scriptures I quoted, which Crucible has avoided discussing, do that.

 

[ok doser]

Stop embarrassing yourselves, liberals. You insulted half your country, protested against them, slandered, sued, anon anon- take accountability for your nonsense, and accept why you lost.

the deplorables won! :banana:

 

[rocketman]

No, the scriptures I quoted, which Crucible has avoided discussing, do that.

So, now you want to use scripture as an authority to break the laws of a nation? to promote anti-authority? Good move...not. :

 

[Alate_One]

So, now you want to use scripture as an authority to break the laws of a nation? to promote anti-authority? Good move...not. :

Huh? Who is breaking laws? I said the electoral college should be done away with either through constitutional amendment or the interstate compact.

 

[rocketman]

Huh? Who is breaking laws?

Aliens that cross our border illegally, which is why I assume you posted those verses, scripture also encourages us to live peaceably under the laws in place, guess you forgot that. Helping those in need does not translate to supporting entire nations or illegal activity.

I said the electoral college should be done away with either through constitutional amendment or the interstate compact.

No, the constitution does not need to be altered to fit the wants of one braying faction that only dwell in small highly populated regions/cities, that is the exact reason why the framers set-up the voting system this way, you have to sell it across the country, to a majority of citizens in the majority of states...that is the system for over 200 years now, like it or not. It will take a super majority to change the constitution so good luck with that, I don't see that happening anytime soon, nor should it, you can either sell it nationwide or lose.

 

[Crucible]

And that doesn't make the EV fair or relevant for the nation today.

The Founding Fathers did not see fit that important decisions be made with pure democracy. You see- because spastic, reactionary people like you exist, and are easily influenced by fanaticism which can cause drastic consequences for a nation.

The Electoral College is one of many mechanisms to prevent tyranny of majority- you need a 3/4 vote to change the Constitution, for example, and many other things which require a 2/3 vote.

A 1% majority, which is what you are arguing, is not how a country should determine it's leader. It's still a completely split country right down the middle.

I think people need to recognize that the framers were not especially virtuous or smart people for their time. They were people like us but also a product of their time.

Is that why George Washington is literally divinized on the Capitol roof surrounded by Roman gods

They were not a product of their time, but you are- you're a run of the mill liberal with the intellectual and spiritual depth of a rock.

 

[Alate_One]

The Founding Fathers did not see fit that important decisions be made with pure democracy. You see- because spastic, reactionary people like you exist, and are easily influenced by fanaticism which can cause drastic consequences for a nation.

Um, says the guy that voted for the inexperienced con artist. As several people on my side have said, if the electoral college couldn't stop Trump it has no reason to exist.

The Electoral College is one of many mechanisms to prevent tyranny of majority- you need a 3/4 vote to change the Constitution, for example, and many other things which require a 2/3 vote.

A 1% majority, which is what you are arguing, is not how a country should determine it's leader. It's still a completely split country right down the middle.

Indeed it is. But you're arguing for MINORITY rule, how is that more fair? Besides, we have separation of powers, the minority is always represented in the Senate which is tremendously powerful.

They were not a product of their time, but you are- you're a run of the mill liberal with the intellectual and spiritual depth of a rock.

Says the guy that thinks everyone who isn't white and disagrees with him should leave the country. You're a product of the 1700s, maybe you should go back there, or go to Russia. I hear Trump says they have a great leader. Not many brown people either, I bet you'd like it.

 

[Alate_One]

Aliens that cross our border illegally, which is why I assume you posted those verses, scripture also encourages us to live peaceably under the laws in place, guess you forgot that. Helping those in need does not translate to supporting entire nations or illegal activity.

Sure it does. Do you think being an alien or a lawbreaker makes you less then human or unworthy of help? Perhaps you didn't read the verses closely either?

And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

No, the constitution does not need to be altered to fit the wants of one braying faction that only dwell in small highly populated regions/cities, that is the exact reason why the framers set-up the voting system this way, you have to sell it across the country, to a majority of citizens in the majority of states...that is the system for over 200 years now, like it or not. It will take a super majority to change the constitution so good luck with that, I don't see that happening anytime soon, nor should it, you can either sell it nationwide or lose.

When the framers set up the system, population was evenly distributed and the difference between populous and less populous states wasn't that large. Things have changed. And no democrats don't "only dwell in huge cities". People in general mostly dwell in huge cities. But there are democrats in the countryside (as I am and a number of friends) and Republicans in big cities. Many rural counties are quite evenly split.

The fact is if you're a republican in California, your vote for president doesn't count pretty much ever. And if you're a democrat in Texas, currently the same is true. Eventually demographics will change enough that even the skewing of population won't elect Republicans. But your argument is basically because my tribe lives in the countryside I should get the power to rule over the majority of the population. That's quite clearly unfair.

What would actually be an even more important reform than removing the electoral college would be ranked voting, to eliminate the spoiler effect and give everyone their actual first or second choice, while making the people's will clearer. That can be done at the state level.

 

[Crucible]

Um, says the guy that voted for the inexperienced con artist. As several people on my side have said, if the electoral college couldn't stop Trump it has no reason to exist.

It stopped the fanaticism of the Left, who were throwing half the country under the bus and selling it to globalization. Along with that, you all probably would've caused another cold war with Russia.

In short, you are all really a bunch of treasonous dissidents, and have revealed it through your open disdain for America's foundation.
You should be glad you're only deemed crybullies to be honest.

Says the guy that thinks everyone who isn't white and disagrees with him should leave the country. You're a product of the 1700s, maybe you should go back there, or go to Russia. I hear Trump says they have a great leader. Not many brown people either, I bet you'd like it.

Russians aren't getting killed everyday by minorities and religious extremists, or being stepping stones walked over for other people's success. They also don't have a government that marries gays, and isn't afraid to call a war on ISIS a holy one. They don't have women pretending they don't have equality, and they don't take jive from people like you.

That's how a country which calls themselves 'Christian' ought to aim for, instead of pretending to holy and using specialty groups to project your false morality-
Blacks vote Democrat because you all have promoted an idea that would be beneficial to them. This is what happened: you gave black women double quotas and benefits, turned their community into a matriarchy, and made the black father obsolete. Then, the children grow up and likely become a statistic, and in turn are thrown to the wayside by the same women of the following generation.

Case in point: You all do not solve any problems, you create them and then blame conservatives.

 

[Crucible]

They also refused to ratify a constitution that didn't count slaves as 3/5 of a person.

'3/5ths' was for representative purposes, it had nothing to do with their condition as actual human beings. The notion that they didn't see slaves as human is a nonsensical myth- law was written in ways courts couldn't reinterpret- as to safeguard it from prejudice.. which you liberals reinterpret them anyway

 

[Alate_One]

It stopped the fanaticism of the Left, who were throwing half the country under the bus and selling it to globalization. Along with that, you all probably would've caused another cold war with Russia.

Globalization is inevitable, it's a consequence of technological progress. We can either try to deal with it rationally or we can pretend than a magical orange guy can fix everything for us. You chose the latter.

In short, you are all really a bunch of treasonous dissidents, and have revealed it through your open disdain for America's foundation.
You should be glad you're only deemed crybullies to be honest.

Treasonous? From the guy that voted for the best buddy to Russia. As far as America's founding, I view it rationally. You view it through a lens of deification.

The USA was a revolutionary concept when it was founded. It gave people a model of democracy where there wasn't much before. However, other democratic societies have learned from the failings of our own constitution and improved on them. We have had great difficulty doing so because the constitution is so hard to amend. I have listened to many political scientist's and historian's talks on these matters. And they agree there are fundamental problems with our system of government. You espouse a blind nationalism that is unable to reflect on past failings and consider we might be able to improve on them.

Russians aren't getting killed everyday by minorities and religious extremists, or being stepping stones walked over for other people's success. They also don't have a government that marries gays, and isn't afraid to call a war on ISIS a holy one. They don't have women pretending they don't have equality, and they don't take jive from people like you.

Yeah because Russians attack and kill their minorities first. That's a very Christian response now isn't it.

That's how a country which calls themselves 'Christian' ought to aim for, instead of pretending to holy and using specialty groups to project your false morality-

So being strong is Christian huh.

That's not how Jesus described it.

2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. 5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. 6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. 7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons[a] of God. 10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Russia is killing civilians, jailing those that disagree and assassinating people they don't like. That's not merciful or peacemaking, that's evil. You mistake evil actions, for strength. You're very confused. Whatever "Christianity" you believe in, it has no basis in scripture, only in your warped political beliefs. Take some time and consider that.

Case in point: You all do not solve any problems, you create them and then blame conservatives.

Oh? Such as? You think this "matriarchy" was created by the left? No, that was the right and their war on drugs and law and order. When you incarcerate millions of people, you create societal dysfunction.

We got millions of Americans health insurance, your lot wants to take it away. Republicans have been masters of creating problems since George W. Bush invaded Iraq, and even during the Reagan administration. Bush helped create ISIS through the de-Baathification program. And Trump is going to create more problems than you can shake a stick at.

 

[Alate_One]

'3/5ths' was for representative purposes, it had nothing to do with their condition as actual human beings. The notion that they didn't see slaves as human is a nonsensical myth- law was written in ways courts couldn't reinterpret- as to safeguard it from prejudice.. which you liberals reinterpret them anyway

A nonsensical myth? The SCOTUS Dread Scott decision declaring slaves as property was BASED on the views of the founders.

The court held that Scott was not free based on his residence in either Illinois or Wisconsin because he was not considered a person under the U.S. Constitution–in the opinion of the justices, black people were not considered citizens when the Constitution was drafted in 1787. According to Taney, Dred Scott was the property of his owner, and property could not be taken from a person without due process of law.

source

Maybe we can just replace your cross with a swastika now?

 

[Crucible]

Globalization is inevitable, it's a consequence of technological progress. We can either try to deal with it rationally or we can pretend than a magical orange guy can fix everything for us. You chose the latter.

That's what liberal politicians want others to think, as that is what got you liberals from here to the UK working toward it. Globalization is not something that exists anywhere except in the minds of you people, and you were willing to sell everyone in your countries down the river for it too

Treasonous? From the guy that voted for the best buddy to Russia. As far as America's founding, I view it rationally. You view it through a lens of deification.

Russia pointed out that Democrats were rigging the election- they don't like Hillary, and neither should you all. She's a big reason you all just got sent back to the 1800's because she straight up usurped your entire party with the same crooked sorcery she put on pollsters and everything else.

As for history, I see it for what it is- I'm not some overly privileged idiot with an apparent fetish for being dominated by cultures that are hostile toward me :wave2:
That's what I have in common with America's founding, and of every other ountry on this planet outside the 1st World
Nobody else is playing yall's game- they think your all morons and take advantage of it. Yall think that Trump is saying it just to be saying it, but that's just plain reality.

 

[ok doser]

Globalization is inevitable, it's a consequence of technological progress. ...

well, it's a consequence of incredibly low shipping costs that allow a profit to made on a product manufactured on the other side of the globe by slave labor