ECT SO WHERE IS CORNELIUS NOW , IN THE KINGDOM OR THE B O C ??

[turbosixx]

Nonsense.Nowhere in Revelation does it say the shape is a cube. That's just another of your many invalid assumptions.

16 The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia. Its length and width and height are equal.

I'm no geometry expert, but it's foursquare with an equal length, width and height. If you do the math, 12,000 stadia is 1,380 miles.

That picture is to scale.

 

[Right Divider]

16 The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width. And he measured the city with his rod, 12,000 stadia. Its length and width and height are equal.

I'm no geometry expert, but it's foursquare with an equal length, width and height. If you do the math, 12,000 stadia is 1,380 miles.

That picture is to scale.

There is another shape that still fits those dimensions.

What, exactly, is a "symbolic mile"?

And what is your problem with this size?

You think that these are problems for God?

You think that this just has to be symbolic because you cannot understand it otherwise.

 

[turbosixx]

You think that this just has to be symbolic because you cannot understand it otherwise.

You think it's literal because you can't understand it symbolically?

Is being born again literal?
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

 

[Right Divider]

You think it's literal because you can't understand it symbolically?

Is being born again literal?
12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

I literally believe it because the text itself gives no reason to believe otherwise.

Anyway, you've gotten us far off track.

The earthly kingdom is where Christ will sit on the THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID.

David's throne has no other meaning.

P.S. Born again refers to Israel.

 

[turbosixx]

I literally believe it because the text itself gives no reason to believe otherwise.

Anyway, you've gotten us far off track.

The earthly kingdom is where Christ will sit on the THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID.

David's throne has no other meaning.

P.S. Born again refers to Israel.

You know it amazes and at the same time saddens me that we can read the same words and see totally opposite things. I guess that's why there is all this division.

 

[Right Divider]

You know it amazes and at the same time saddens me that we can read the same words and see totally opposite things. I guess that's why there is all this division.

It is you that does not understand where David's throne is and what it represents.

Paul never once tells us that we need to be "born again". He tells us that we need to be crucified with Christ.

Born again is all about Israel and their nation. They were born first when God brought them out of Egypt.

Exod 4:22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn: ​

Remember that when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus in John 3, He was a minister of the CIRCUMCISION per Romans 15:8

Paul tells US that WE are not to know Jesus that way.

2Cor 5:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.


​

 

[turbosixx]

It is you that does not understand where David's throne is and what it represents.

I understand David's throne as ruling king over God's people.

Jesus is the anointed one (King). God have him all authority when he resurrected him.
Rom. 1:3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
Acts 2:29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Remember that when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus in John 3, He was a minister of the CIRCUMCISION per Romans 15:8

It's my understanding that what Jesus was telling Nicodemus was that he could no longer rely on his birth into the Jewish nation to be God's people. That's what John was saying:
Lk. 3:8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

Paul tells US that WE are not to know Jesus that way.

2Cor 5:16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.


​

I agree, but not just Jesus "no man".

 

[Right Divider]

I understand David's throne as ruling king over God's people.

David was the king of Israel. The throne of David is the throne of Israel.

Jesus is the anointed one (King). God have him all authority when he resurrected him.
Rom. 1:3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,
Acts 2:29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31 he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Indeed, after the resurrection and after His return from heaven, Christ will establish His kingdom on the earth.

It's my understanding that what Jesus was telling Nicodemus was that he could no longer rely on his birth into the Jewish nation to be God's people. That's what John was saying:
Lk. 3:8 Bear fruits in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

That is true, but it does not change the CONTEXT of whom the Lord was speaking to during His earthly ministry.

I agree, but not just Jesus "no man".

That was irrelevant to the point that I was making. We are to know Christ as the head of the body and not the king of Israel, even though He is BOTH.

BTW, I'd like to point out that the new Jerusalem comes AFTER the millennial kingdom.

 

[turbosixx]

That is true, but it does not change the CONTEXT of whom the Lord was speaking to during His earthly ministry.

Paul said the gospel is to the Jew first. When did they hear it first?

 

[Right Divider]

Paul said the gospel is to the Jew first. When did they hear it first?

Which gospel?

 

[God's Truth]

I literally believe it because the text itself gives no reason to believe otherwise.

Anyway, you've gotten us far off track.

The earthly kingdom is where Christ will sit on the THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID.

David's throne has no other meaning.

P.S. Born again refers to Israel.

Born again refers to ALL the saved.

If one is not born again one is not saved.

 

[turbosixx]

Which gospel?

The one Paul preaches:
Rom. 1:15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

 

[God's Truth]

Which gospel?

The gospel/good news is Jesus Christ. That is one good news/gospel that saves.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus came and gave the new covenant guidelines and rules and it was REJECTED by many of the Jews. It was a covenant that was based on faith, UNLIKE the old covenant.

The Jews who did believe Jesus---they were the Jews that were already saved and who belonged to God. They were God's and now they had to remain God's by going through Jesus. Jesus said he would not lose one that the Father gave him.

Jesus said when he is crucified, then he will draw/allow all to come to him to be saved. He sent the apostles to all, even to the Jews that had him crucified, and even to the Gentiles. It is the same rejected gospel that Jesus preached when he walked the earth.

 

[Right Divider]

The one Paul preaches:
Rom. 1:15 So, as much as is in me, I am ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Well, it's simple and clear from the text... it's the gospel Paul was ready to preach to them.... just as he says.

It's not the gospel of the kingdom as per the Lord's ministry to Israel.

 

[God's Truth]

Who would ever get that when Jesus, who is Lord over all, and his words do not pass, came to earth to tell us what he wants and then die for us, yet after death gave Paul a different gospel.

That is beyond unreasonable and false.

 

[patrick jane]

Did Cornelius Learn the Mystery?


By Justin Johnson

A common mistake is to make Cornelius the pattern for the mystery of Christ since he was a Gentile. Yet, Cornelius was neither a result of Paul’s ministry nor the mystery message of Christ.

The Lord revealed the mystery of Christ first to Paul (1 Tim 1:16). Paul was saved in Acts 9. The story of Cornelius is in Acts 10, but Peter is the minister not Paul.

Peter goes to him after a vision from the Lord and ministers to him the gospel of the kingdom. Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ. Cornelius and his house became a sign to Israel that the Spirit was receiving repentant Gentiles into Peter’s remnant group.

Cornelius’ Obedience

Cornelius was not a pagan Gentile. He was one who walked in obedience to the God of Israel:

“A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.” – Acts 10:2
​

It was because of his obedience and faithfulness to God’s instructions that he received the vision.

“Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.” – Acts 10:4
​

Cornelius would know that Israel was God’s people and were the chosen mediation between God and Gentiles. When Peter reluctantly arrived at this Gentile’s house, Cornelius quickly honored him knowing that he was a Jew. This was in accordance with Genesis 12:3.

“And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.” – Acts 10:25
​

Today, prayers and alms are not prequisites of Gentiles who are freely offered salvation through the direct mediation of Christ. What was hidden in time past was revealed in the mystery of Christ. Cornelius did not understand the mystery.

Peter’s Law Message

Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ to Cornelius. In Acts 10 Peter is still observing the law of commandments that Jesus bid him observe in
Mat 23:1.

“Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation;” – Acts 10:28
​

The mystery of Christ teaches we are no longer under the law. Peter did not have a clue. He was told that he should not call any man unclean. A Gentile’s faith and righteous works were acceptable to God.
God does not respect persons as was explained by the law and the prophets (Deut 16:19, Prov 28:21).

God told Peter that Gentiles who worked righteousness could be accepted into the believing kingdom group.

“But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” – Acts 10:35
​

Peter’s Pentecostal Message
So far we have seen Peter confirm a positional separation between Jew and Gentile, though neither should be respected in judgment of their good works.

Peter continues to explain the message which Jesus ministered to Israel:

“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel… which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;” – Acts 10:36-37
​

Clearly, Peter is teaching the same kingdom gospel that was taught by John, Jesus, and at Pentecost: repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, the kingdom is at hand.

Of course, he includes his unique Pentecostal addition to the kingdom gospel which was that Jesus was resurrected proving his position as the prophesied Messiah and the Judge. It is by the name of Jesus that their sins could be remitted by repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12).

It was at this time that the Spirit fell on these devout Gentiles who believed on the name of Jesus of Nazareth, sent unto Israel, slain by the Jews, and witnessed by Peter.
Nowhere do we find a hint of the mystery of Christ.

The Mystery still a Mystery
The only thing resembling the mystery ministry was that Cornelius was a Gentile, but Gentile believers were not a new or secret thing (Mat 15:28, Luke 7:3-8).

The mystery of Christ is not the blessing of Gentiles. It was long prophesied that the Gentiles would be blessed through Israel. It is the uniting of Jew and Gentile into one new thing (Eph 2:15). It is Christ in the Gentiles (Col 1:27); the blindness of Israel (Rom 11:25); the heavenly destiny (Phil 3:20); and the new means of glory in the cross (Gal 6:14), not the nation Israel.

The lesson taught to Peter by the Spirit in Acts 10 equipped him to later give the right hand of fellowship to Paul (Gal 2:9). Yet, Peter did not teach nor did Cornelius receive the mystery information about Christ. That the Gentiles possessed more faith than Israel was always a sign of Israel’s shameful rejection of God (Luke 7:9) . The book of Acts is about Israel’s rejection of God

Top of the Page
Article Index
Published: February 9, 2011
Last Modified: October 22, 2016Related posts:

1. -Peter Taught Gentiles. Yawn.
   -Peters Message to Cornelius and the Gentiles
   -Objection: “Peter taught Paul’s gospel to Cornelius”
   -What Happened in Mid-Acts?
   -The Mystery of Christ to Jews Also
   -Paul’s “My Gospel”
   -List: Differences Between Peter and Paul’s Message

 

[God's Truth]

Well, it's simple and clear from the text... it's the gospel Paul was ready to preach to them.... just as he says.

It's not the gospel of the kingdom as per the Lord's ministry to Israel.

God doesn't have a divided kingdom, two gospels, Paul teaching one opposed to the one taught by the Apostles to the Lamb.

 

[God's Truth]

Did Cornelius Learn the Mystery?
By Justin Johnson

A common mistake is to make Cornelius the pattern for the mystery of Christ since he was a Gentile. Yet, Cornelius was neither a result of Paul’s ministry nor the mystery message of Christ.

Cornelius was GIVEN THE ONE AND ONLY gospel that saves.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say."

Acts 11:14
He will convey to you a message by which you and all your household will be saved.'

The Lord revealed the mystery of Christ first to Paul (1 Tim 1:16). Paul was saved in Acts 9. The story of Cornelius is in Acts 10, but Peter is the minister not Paul.

Peter goes to him after a vision from the Lord and ministers to him the gospel of the kingdom. Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ. Cornelius and his house became a sign to Israel that the Spirit was receiving repentant Gentiles into Peter’s remnant group.

This man that you choose to teach you is wrong. Peter gave Cornelius the one and only message that saves. Cornelius received the Holy Spirit and was saved.

Cornelius’ Obedience

Cornelius was not a pagan Gentile. He was one who walked in obedience to the God of Israel:

“A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.” – Acts 10:2
​

That is false. Peter says to Cornelius that he knows it is against the LAW for him to be there in Cornelius' house.

Cornelius was a righteous man but did not follow the old law as is required to be a clean person.
He was probably not circumcised.

Acts 10:28 He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.

It was because of his obedience and faithfulness to God’s instructions that he received the vision.

“Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.” – Acts 10:4
​

That is about doing right but he did not obey the old law and atone for his sins with the various baths and sacrifice of animals.

Cornelius would know that Israel was God’s people and were the chosen mediation between God and Gentiles. When Peter reluctantly arrived at this Gentile’s house, Cornelius quickly honored him knowing that he was a Jew. This was in accordance with Genesis 12:3.

“And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.” – Acts 10:25
​

Today, prayers and alms are not prequisites of Gentiles who are freely offered salvation through the direct mediation of Christ. What was hidden in time past was revealed in the mystery of Christ. Cornelius did not understand the mystery.

People are not automatically saved just because they believe. Even Paul fasted and prayed and repented of his sins before he was saved.

Paul taught to JEWS and GENTILES to repent of sins and have faith in Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds

Peter’s Law Message

Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ to Cornelius. In Acts 10 Peter is still observing the law of commandments that Jesus bid him observe in
Mat 23:1.

“Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation;” – Acts 10:28
​

Peter taught the same gospel as Paul.

The mystery of Christ teaches we are no longer under the law. Peter did not have a clue. He was told that he should not call any man unclean. A Gentile’s faith and righteous works were acceptable to God.

God does not respect persons as was explained by the law and the prophets (Deut 16:19, Prov 28:21).

God told Peter that Gentiles who worked righteousness could be accepted into the believing kingdom group.

That is to whom even PAUL says the gospel is given to.


Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.
Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Cont.

 

[DAN P]

Did Cornelius Learn the Mystery?


By Justin Johnson

A common mistake is to make Cornelius the pattern for the mystery of Christ since he was a Gentile. Yet, Cornelius was neither a result of Paul’s ministry nor the mystery message of Christ.

The Lord revealed the mystery of Christ first to Paul (1 Tim 1:16). Paul was saved in Acts 9. The story of Cornelius is in Acts 10, but Peter is the minister not Paul.

Peter goes to him after a vision from the Lord and ministers to him the gospel of the kingdom. Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ. Cornelius and his house became a sign to Israel that the Spirit was receiving repentant Gentiles into Peter’s remnant group.

Cornelius’ Obedience

Cornelius was not a pagan Gentile. He was one who walked in obedience to the God of Israel:

“A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.” – Acts 10:2
​

It was because of his obedience and faithfulness to God’s instructions that he received the vision.

“Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.” – Acts 10:4
​

Cornelius would know that Israel was God’s people and were the chosen mediation between God and Gentiles. When Peter reluctantly arrived at this Gentile’s house, Cornelius quickly honored him knowing that he was a Jew. This was in accordance with Genesis 12:3.

“And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.” – Acts 10:25
​

Today, prayers and alms are not prequisites of Gentiles who are freely offered salvation through the direct mediation of Christ. What was hidden in time past was revealed in the mystery of Christ. Cornelius did not understand the mystery.

Peter’s Law Message

Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ to Cornelius. In Acts 10 Peter is still observing the law of commandments that Jesus bid him observe in
Mat 23:1.

“Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation;” – Acts 10:28
​

The mystery of Christ teaches we are no longer under the law. Peter did not have a clue. He was told that he should not call any man unclean. A Gentile’s faith and righteous works were acceptable to God.
God does not respect persons as was explained by the law and the prophets (Deut 16:19, Prov 28:21).

God told Peter that Gentiles who worked righteousness could be accepted into the believing kingdom group.

“But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” – Acts 10:35
​

Peter’s Pentecostal Message
So far we have seen Peter confirm a positional separation between Jew and Gentile, though neither should be respected in judgment of their good works.

Peter continues to explain the message which Jesus ministered to Israel:

“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel… which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;” – Acts 10:36-37
​

Clearly, Peter is teaching the same kingdom gospel that was taught by John, Jesus, and at Pentecost: repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, the kingdom is at hand.

Of course, he includes his unique Pentecostal addition to the kingdom gospel which was that Jesus was resurrected proving his position as the prophesied Messiah and the Judge. It is by the name of Jesus that their sins could be remitted by repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12).

It was at this time that the Spirit fell on these devout Gentiles who believed on the name of Jesus of Nazareth, sent unto Israel, slain by the Jews, and witnessed by Peter.
Nowhere do we find a hint of the mystery of Christ.

The Mystery still a Mystery
The only thing resembling the mystery ministry was that Cornelius was a Gentile, but Gentile believers were not a new or secret thing (Mat 15:28, Luke 7:3-8).

The mystery of Christ is not the blessing of Gentiles. It was long prophesied that the Gentiles would be blessed through Israel. It is the uniting of Jew and Gentile into one new thing (Eph 2:15). It is Christ in the Gentiles (Col 1:27); the blindness of Israel (Rom 11:25); the heavenly destiny (Phil 3:20); and the new means of glory in the cross (Gal 6:14), not the nation Israel.

The lesson taught to Peter by the Spirit in Acts 10 equipped him to later give the right hand of fellowship to Paul (Gal 2:9). Yet, Peter did not teach nor did Cornelius receive the mystery information about Christ. That the Gentiles possessed more faith than Israel was always a sign of Israel’s shameful rejection of God (Luke 7:9) . The book of Acts is about Israel’s rejection of God

Top of the Page
Article Index
Published: February 9, 2011
Last Modified: October 22, 2016Related posts:

1. -Peter Taught Gentiles. Yawn.
   -Peters Message to Cornelius and the Gentiles
   -Objection: “Peter taught Paul’s gospel to Cornelius”
   -What Happened in Mid-Acts?
   -The Mystery of Christ to Jews Also
   -Paul’s “My Gospel”
   -List: Differences Between Peter and Paul’s Message

Hi and almost sounds like me and does a good article , but did not address where Cornelius is , in the Kingdom OR is Cornelius in the B O C and how Cornelius really is saved ?

It is obvious , Cornelius is in the Kingdom Program !!

dan p