turbosixx
New member
I think you and I are in agreement.
ECT SO WHERE IS CORNELIUS NOW , IN THE KINGDOM OR THE B O C ??
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
I think you and I are in agreement.
Hi tubosixx and can point to one example in John 20:23 !!
Wonder if GOD TRUTH can obey this one ??
dan p
turbosixx
New member
I'm sorry but I don't understand your point. Could you please elaborate?
Right Divider
Body part
OK
Jesus was NOT preaching the "church which is His body" when He was the minister of the circumcision.Roman 15:8
You need to understand the context of His mission to Israel.
Right Divider
Body part
The separating of the sheep and the goats is NOT the "final judgment"... it is about going into the kingdom come.
So what? As God, Jesus already had that authority.
The kingdom ON EARTH is still in the future.
And YET He is still NOT stilling on the THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID.
THAT throne is in Jerusalem on the earth.
Matt 6:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(6:10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.
Zech 14:1-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(14:1) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (14:2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (14:3) Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. (14:4) ¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (14:5) And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. (14:6) And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark: (14:7) But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light. (14:8) And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. (14:9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. (14:10) All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and [from] the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. (14:11) And [men] shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Don't try to turn that ANALOGY into a reality.
The new Jerusalem comes DOWN from heaven to the EARTH
Last edited:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
In the Lidell-Scott Greek-English Lexicon we see that one of the meanings is "family":
"genea,, a/j, Ion. geneh,, h/j( h`, Ep. dat. geneh/fi: (gi,gnomai): I. of the persons in a family, 1. race, stock, family, Hom., etc.; Pria,mou g. Il.; evk geneh/j according to his family, Ib.; geneh/| by birth-right, Od.; geneh.n Aivtwlo,j by descent, Il.:-of horses, a breed, Ib.:-generally, geneh,n in kind, Hdt.:-also a tribe, nation, Persw/n g. Aesch. 2. a race, generation, oi[hper fu,llwn geneh. toih,de kai. avndrw/n Il.; du,o geneai. avnqrw,pwn Ib. 3. offspring, Orac. ap. Hdt.; and of a single person, Soph. II. of time or place in reference to birth: 1. a birth-place, geneh. evpi. li,mnh| Gugai,h| Il.; of an eagle's eyrie, Od. 2. age, time of life, esp. in phrases geneh/| new,tatoj( presbu,tatoj youngest, eldest, in age, or by birth, Hom. 3. time of birth, evk geneh/j Hdt.; avpo. g. Xen."
The correct translation of the following passage is as follows:
"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This family shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (Mt.24:33-34).
The family refers to the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The Lord Jesus' sermon foretold of the "great tribulation," a time when Israel will be attacked unmercifully in an attempt to destroy the whole family of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Therefore it would not be unusual for the Lord Jesus to assure them that they will not be wiped out and that they will continue to exist. Therefore, He told them that the family of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would still be in existence when He returned to the earth.
In fact, this is not the first time that such assurance had been given to the Israelites, as witnessed by these words:
"Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: If this fixed order departs From before Me, declares the LORD, Then the offspring of Israel also will cease from being a nation before Me forever" (Jer.31:35-36).
According to the Lord as long as the sun and moon remain in the sky the nation of Israel will remain "being a nation" before Him. So there is nothing odd about the Lord Jesus telling the Israelites that "this family shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled," especially with the great tribulation in view.
turbosixx
New member
Is there any bible version that translates it as family? Do you know of any other place where "genea" is used as family?
Yes, family is a possibility but I don't see how family makes the leap to descendants.
Also, if we step back and look at other verses concerning the kingdom, it's clear it's at hand as Jesus said. Here's one example:
Matt.16:28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Do you believe Jesus to be a false prophet?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "coming" at Matthew 16:28 is "to appear" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
So this is one of the possible meanings of Matthew 16:28:
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man appear in his kingdom."
Therefore, we can understand that the Lord Jesus was saying that there were some of the Apostles who would see the Lord Jesus "appearing" in His kingdom before they died.
The words of Peter in his first epistle refers to this "appearing," and it happened at the "transfiguration" on the holy mount:
"For, skilfully devised fables not having followed out, we did make known to you the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but eye-witnesses having become of his majesty --for having received from God the Father honour and glory, such a voice being borne to him by the excellent glory: `This is My Son -- the beloved, in whom I was well pleased;' and this voice we -- we did hear, out of heaven borne, being with him in the holy mount" (2 Pet.1:16-18).
Peter is speaking of seeing the Lord's "presence" and he also says that he was was an eyewitness of His "majesty". The word "majesty" is translated from the Greek word megaleiotes and that word means "greatness, magnificence...of the visible splendor of the divine majesty as it appeared in the transfiguration of Christ, 2 Peter i.16" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
Therefore we can understand that what happened on the Holy Mount fulfilled the Lord Jesus' words that some of His Apostles would witness His "appearance" or "presence" in His kingdom.
In each gospel that records the words of the Lord Jesus saying that some of His Apostles will see Him in the kingdom the events of the "transfiguration" immediately follow. On the holy mount "His face did shine like the sun, and His rainment was as white as the light" (Mt.17:2).
Louis A. Barbieri, Jr., suggests the signifiance of those who were present on the Holy Mount:
"Why were Moses and Elijah, of all Old Testament people, present on this occasion? Perhaps these two men and the disciples suggest all the categories of people who will be in Jesus' coming kingdom. The disciples represent individuals who will be present in physical bodies. Moses represents saved individuals who have died or will die. Elijah represents saved individuals who will not experience death, but will be caught up to heaven alive (1 Thes. 4:17). These three groups will be present when Christ institutes His kingdom on earth. Furthermore, the Lord will be in His glory as He was at the transfiguration, and the kingdom will take place on earth, as this obviously did" (Walvoord & Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament [Colorado Springs: ChariotVictor Press, 1983], p.59).
In case you didn't notice it the events of which the Lord Jesus spoke were in answer to His disciples' question concerning what will happen at the "end of the age." And what will happen then will involve the whole earth and nothing like that happened in the first century.
turbosixx
New member
Yes sir I know that the "end of the age" was one of their questions. Their questions were in response to Jesus saying the temple was going to be destroyed.
Jesus said the kingdom was at hand before his DBR. Daniel tells us his kingdom would be set up during the time of the Roman empire. Do you believe both of those prophecies are wrong?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus spoke the parable of the "tares of the field" where He described what would occur at the "end of the age":
"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13:37-43).
Here we can see that the Lord Jesus speaks of a harvest that will happen at the "end of the age", the "end of this age." He also makes it clear that the harvest will take place in the field, and He says that the "field is the world."
There was no world-wide harvest in the first century so all of what the Lord Jesus foretold has not yet come to pass.
turbosixx
New member
This is happening now. Christians and worldly live side by side or we would have to go out of the world.
1 Cor. 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
What do you make of the other parable of the sower?
Lk. 8:4 And when a great crowd was gathering and people from town after town came to him, he said in a parable, 5 “A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell along the path and was trampled underfoot, and the birds of the air devoured it. 6 And some fell on the rock, and as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up with it and choked it. 8 And some fell into good soil and grew and yielded a hundredfold.” As he said these things, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
Is this not the spreading of the gospel?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No, it is not happening now. Before the world-wide harvest begins the following must happen first:
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).
Right Divider
Body part
If you read Isaiah 60 with Revelation 21 and without your blinders on, you will understand what the kingdom of heaven is like.
turbosixx
New member
I believe that is the harvest. Those he separates are going to their final destination.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
You didn't address the other parable of the sower. Is it not the spreading of the gospel?
Matt. 13:18 “Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
turbosixx
New member
I understand them to be figurative.
http://www.tourofheaven.com/images/new-jerusalem/PC170579.jpg
Jesus described the kingdom of heaven as well. I believe they should all harmonize.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So do you actually believe the following has already happened?:
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).
turbosixx
New member
No, I believe that is when he comes back and judges everyone. Would you agree he his separating them for their eternal destination?
Right Divider
Body part
You believe the whole Bible is figurative.
That's some silliness. You must be a flat-earther too.
It's does all harmonize, if you believe it all.
turbosixx
New member
Not at all.
If you do the math, that's exactly what Revelation is describing.
Right Divider
Body part
Neither of the chapters are figurative. You're forcing that upon the text to keep it from breaking your fairy story.
Nonsense.Nowhere in Revelation does it say the shape is a cube. That's just another of your many invalid assumptions.