Originally posted by Zakath
Don't solicit advice from outside the community...
Go talk to the pastor and if you don't agree, split...
Good idea, in theory. But this attitude partially explains why there are more than 33,000 Christian denominations...
If one's leadership is wrong, what about praying for the deity to change their minds and trusting God lead them into truth?
Or doesn't that work in real life? :think:
The mature thing is to try to work things out in person rather than gossiping or running away like a kid.
There is a way to appeal to the authorities over us (parents, teachers, police, pastors, government, etc.). The first step would be to appeal to God, their authority, and then with love, wisdom, and humility approach the delegated authority. If they do not listen, bring someone with you. There may come a time to part ways.
Being pressured to tithe is wrong. If leadership teach it as a principle without coercion or guilt trips, the individual can decide based on Scripture and conscience. Some tithe in my local church, but many do not. This does not create a two-class system in the eyes of the leadership or people (the treasurer is the only one who knows the confidential giving patterns). This is ultimately between man and God.
Romans 14 deals with the weaker and stronger brother and has principles for 'grey areas'. Some consider the Sabbath and tithing black and white issues (they are under the Law, and Christians are not). Paul did not take the condemning approach most do here to sincere 'cmoore' and myself. Paul shared principles of wisdom on the divisive issues of the law and grace.
Romans 14 "ACCEPT (vs name call) him whose faith is weak, WITHOUT passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything (meat; dietary laws; food to idols),...another...only vegetables....The man who eats everything (or tithes or does not tithe or worships on Saturday instead of Sunday, etc.) must NOT look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not CONDEMN the man who does, for GOD (who sees the heart/motives, unlike you self-righteous religious dudes) has ACCEPTED him. WHO ARE YOU to JUDGE someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the LORD is able to make him stand.
One man considers one day more sacred than another (law/Sabbath cf. tithe); another man considers every day alike. Each one should be FULLY CONVINCED IN HIS OWN MIND. He who regards one day as special (or tithes...reasonable application in principle?), does so TO THE LORD (motive, not letter of law/legalism). He who eats meat, eats to the Lord (or tithes), for he gives thanks to God (spirit, attitude, heart vs bondage to legalism); and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God (different practices, same motive= acceptable).....we belong to the Lord (I have no patience for those who label us evil doers and Christ haters because we do not follow your views to the letter)....you then, why do YOU judge your brother? Or why do YOU look down on your brother (still a brother with differing convictions, rather than an enemy of the gospel...sozo?)? For we all stand before GOD'S judgment seat (and He alone will Judge in truth and righteousness)...so then, EACH of us will give an account of himself to God.
Therefore let us STOP passing judgment on one another. Instead...stumbling block (love)...As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. BUT IF anyone regards something as unclean, then for HIM (only) it is unclean...you are no longer acting in love...For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating or drinking (or tithing, or Sabbath keeping or drinking, etc.) but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way (whether they tithe or not) is pleasing to God and approved by men (except the weaker brother who ironically judges others for not following their rules)...So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and GOD (vs hit list on TOL)...and everything that does not come from faith is sin. We who are strong (free) ought to bear with the failings of the weak......spirit of unity...ACCEPT one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God...."
cf. I Cor. 8-10 for more principles on heart attitude vs outward practices that are disputable....rights/responsibilities...believer's freedom and wisdom (vs black/white condemnations).
Jesus often condemned the Pharisees for their legalistic views at the expense of the spirit of the law. If you cannot say amen to Pauline principles, say ouch. Your condemnation of others makes you the weaker brother. The strong believer is free to follow his heart and conscience. I would say slander and wrong judgments are at least as bad as giving 10% to God (I Cor. 16:2= in keeping with his income= systematic/proportionate).
Whether one determines in his heart to give 10%, 1%, $0, 50%, daily, weekly, yearly, etc. is not the issue. The issue is the freedom of believers and one's heart motive and attitude. You are not more spiritual because you give 17% and cmoore gives 10% (easier math). You are not less spiritual if you give $1 (debatable) if you are a millionaire?
It is about the heart and motives and spirit of the law. To get hung up on 'tithe' makes you more legalistic than those who do tithe. Within God's moral law there is areas of freedom to give as unto God. Someone who tithes with the wrong motive is worse than someone who does not tithe with the right motive.
Whatever you say, brother.
