Should homosexuals be given the death penalty?

[Lighthouse]

I think that this thread is about whether the law should be changed. I don't think anyone is suggesting that anyone should break the law.

Also, I think that the mosaic law which is being used to support this arguement is only applicable to those who fall under this law (correct me if I'm wrong, somebody).
So, it is only being applied to Christians (and Jews?), and not to non-Christians.
You can't apply God's law to everybody on earth, because you have to choose to be in the 'club' which that law governs.

.... or something.... :noid:

You're wrong.

This is why: The belief is that these laws should still be applicable for all people. We say murder should be illegal for all people, no matter who you are, or what you believe. And execution should be the punishment for murder, for the very same people. We also say this about adultery, kidnapping, rape and homosexuality [among other things]. So what one believes is not an issue here. Beside, the way you framed it is a fallacy. Christians and Jews are no longer "under the law." Not for the reasons Jews and Christians were under the law prior to God's switch to grace by faith alone.

 

[Mystery]

You have only proven yourself to be in the wrong by speaking in evil ways and cursing the spirit of your brethren; you do not represent what you claim.

Proverbs 26:4-5

countdown's first post on this site was filled with false accusations and lies. He is a false teacher.

Now, let's get back to the truth as clearly presented by Paul.

Who is "they" and "them" in the following passages from Romans 1?

Verse 28

"And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,"

"They" are those who have come to reject God and have shown the evidence of their rejection in their lust filled perversions. God allowed them to be ruled by their depravity, and "they" were filled with all unrighteousness doing those things that reveal just how evil they have become.

Verses 29-31

"...being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;"

There is no doubt that the world as a whole is guilty of these things (all have sinned), but the context of these verses is to show that the they are the result of man's rejection of God, and the culmination of that rejection is evidenced by those who participate in homosexual behavior. There is no doubt that all men are sinners, but Paul makes a point of showing that the wickedness of man is clearly seen in the behavior and the heart of those who practice homosexuality. It is the most grevious of behaviors, and every evil fills their hearts.

Verse 32

"...and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them."

Again, the "they" in this verse is still speaking of those who are practicing homosexuals. The context never changed. Those homosexuals know full well that those who do such things as Paul listed are worthy of death, but it makes no difference to them, because they do not respect or acknowledge God in the least! They worship themselves, and they give hearty approval to anyone who will join them in their debauchery.

 

[Lighthouse]

From the book "Captial Punishment In America"



Seldom conducted.

What about it? If it was done right, it wouldn't need to be conducted very often.

How then should this be applied to the controversy at hand? Would it be better if the neighbors had helped stone the insolent child? Does it make it any less wrong?

:bang:

Did you read the rest of my post?

And the government is supposed to be involved in any punishment in the law God gave Israel. How ever, being an insolent child was not against the law.

As you feel I haven't "studied enough," I'm turning this question over to CleverDan to field, as his education in theology far outstrips either of us, as does his knowledge of Scripture application.

He will answer shortly.

OK

 

[countdown]

Because God commanded that the government put them to death. Not civilians.:dunce::duh:

You need to take time to read the Word of God instead of sitting in your chair speaking lies against His Word.
It was entirely the 'civilians' who put the adulterer and the homosexual and other lawbreakers to death, under Moses.
You are seeking a tyrannical system of authority over this nation which will do the bidding of your hatred.
PS: Mystery thinks your father should be put to death. do you agree?

 

[Mystery]

PS: Mystery thinks your father should be put to death. do you agree?

Don't put words in my mouth, you pervert.

There is nothing retroactive about this. I believe that it should be a capital crime, and from the point that it becomes a crime, if someone chooses to break the law and participate in the act, they should receive the just punishment.

I can gurantee you that the behavior, and the promotion of that behavior will diminish, as it should.

Your problem is that YOU don't see homosexuality as an evil behavior, which proves that you have the mind of your father, the devil.

 

[countdown]

countdown's first post on this site was filled with false accusations and lies. He is a false teacher.

Now, let's get back to the truth as clearly presented by Paul.

Who is "they" and "them" in the following passages from Romans 1?
[/B]

You need to begin with the beginning and get the facts straight -and stop lying.

They are all the unrighteous and ungodly who were given over, who knew God but who did not like to retain the knowledge of God and who made idols and etc....God gave them reprobate minds, and reprobates do these things:

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased [reprobate] mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all
unrighteousness,
sexual immorality,
wickedness,
covetousness,
maliciousness;
full of envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
evil-mindedness;
they are whisperers,
30 backbiters,
haters of God,
violent,
proud,
boasters,
inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning,
untrustworthy,
unloving,
unforgiving,
unmerciful;

I highlighted what you yourself display, showing your state of reprobation.

32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[Lighthouse]

Beloved in the Lord. My wife, Cattyfan, has asked me to offer a perspective for the discussion you are having on whether Scripture is mandates the execution of adulterers and homosexuals.

Let me see if I understand the theological thought process: using Bible quotations such as Deuteronomy 22:25, posters like Lighthouse are saying that God’s civil law given to His chosen people, Israel, is still in effect, right?

Wrong.

I am saying certain aspects should still be in effect, as civil laws, because they would be good laws for all societies, outside of religion.

Therefore, even if our country does not allow for the execution of adulterers and homosexuals, that God’s law prevails over any law our country has established, right?

I am saying that the government should follow God's command above their own reasoning and desires. Because God's reasoning and desires are best, for He knows best.

And that if followers of God do not, at least advocate, the enforcement of these laws, then they are not being true Christians, right?

Nope. Not saying that. I certainly don't think that I was not being a true Christian when I first came to TOL, and did not believe in the death penalty for homosexuality or adultery. Nor am I saying your wife [or you] is not being a true Christian.

The fundamental assumption in interpreting and applying these verses is that each verse of Scripture is looked at without using other Bible verses to offer clarity, context, elaboration, and explanation. No Bible passage exists in an island of its own without another verse offering aid on interpretation.

That's your assumption. Romans 1 relates to the verses on homosexuality in Deuteronomy.

One of the strongest Biblical principles I use to help me understand any verse in the Bible is that all Scripture points to Jesus Christ. He became incarnate as man not only to pay the price for our sins with His life, but during His earthly ministry corrected misinterpretations and misapplications of what we call the Old Testament Law.

So certainly Jesus, as God-Man, could have decided to execute the prostitute in John 8: 3-11 (or at the very least have His heavenly Father do that.) But Christ did not even call for the adulterous man to be brought forward. What’s up with that? Was Christ not violating His own Word by not following Deuteronomy 22:23-24, Leviticus 20:10. Did He not live a perfect life? If He did, why didn’t He follow His own Word? Could not have Christ said that His law outranked Roman law?

Actually, as Jesus was not recognized as a governing authority He would have been breaking His own command by demanding that the woman be executed, even if the scribes and Pharisees had been following the law otherwise, which, by the way, they weren't. And how do you know Jesus didn't give a suggestion that the man be brought forward? You don't know what He wrote in the dirt. And if He wrote the law that these men were referring back to, then He did at least suggest that the man be brought forward.

Also, when Jesus looked up at the end, there weren't any witnesses. So at that time, if Jesus had stoned her, or even merely condemned her, He would have been breaking His own command that there should be two or three witnesses.

P.S.
Who says she was a prostitute?

Or could it be that the verses in Deuteronomy and Leviticus were civil laws that applied only to the theocracy that God set up in the nation of Israel that no longer existed as a sovereign nation, because God had pronounced His judgment against them due to their unrepentant sin? Therefore, Christ’s actions were in accordance with His Father’s will in that the earthly rulers in that area forbid the Jews from executing their own civil law. Therefore, Christ’s goal in John 8:3-11 was not execute the woman for her sin nor to excuse the women’s behavior, but to point out how quickly other sinners wanted to kill another sinner instead of offering her the chance to repent of her sin and turn toward God. Christ brought the women to repentance, forgave her, and sent her on her way exhorting her to leave her life of sin. Christ's example becomes our example.

Calvinist much? What makes you think it was God's will that the Jews not follow His commands? Just because another nation invaded, and took them over?

 

[Mystery]

There you go, countdown, just like your personal demon prescribed.. lying about what the bible says...

The context is clear...

The "they" and "them" are homosexuals.

Verses 26-27

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

Not all men and women did these things, but only those who progressed from bad to worse as the previous verses explained. Women chose to have sexual relations with women, and men chose to do the same with men. As a result they were disgraced and suffered the wrath of God in their flesh. Homosexuality is the natural progression and the pinnacle of evil of a heart and mind that has rejected God.

Verse 28

"And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,"

"They" are those who have come to reject God and have shown the evidence of their rejection in their lust filled perversions. God allowed them to be ruled by their depravity, and "they" were filled with all unrighteousness doing those things that reveal just how evil they have become.

Verses 29-31

"...being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;"

There is no doubt that the world as a whole is guilty of these things (all have sinned), but the context of these verses is to show that the they are the result of man's rejection of God, and the culmination of that rejection is evidenced by those who participate in homosexual behavior. There is no doubt that all men are sinners, but Paul makes a point of showing that the wickedness of man is clearly seen in the behavior and the heart of those who practice homosexuality. It is the most grevious of behaviors, and every evil fills their hearts.

Verse 32

"...and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them."

Again, the "they" in this verse is still speaking of those who are practicing homosexuals. The context never changed. Those homosexuals know full well that those who do such things as Paul listed are worthy of death, but it makes no difference to them, because they do not respect or acknowledge God in the least! They worship themselves, and they give hearty approval to anyone who will join them in their debauchery.

 

[Lighthouse]

Every human is a sinner, right?

No.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
-1 Corinthians 6:9-11

All sin is equal in God's eyes, right?

Jesus answered, [Jesus]“You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”[/Jesus]
-John 19:11

Guess what - the sin of a homosexual is equal to every person on this planet; no better, no worse.

See above.

P.S.
Child molestation is worse than homosexuality.

To condemn a sinner to death is to condemn yourself, regardless of the sin in question, because you are also worthy of the same fate.

Scripture? What have I done that is worthy of physical execution?

Actually, I have done something, and I still think I deserve to be executed for it. And if this country had had that as the law at the time it happened, I would not have done it.

A LOT of hypocrites on these boards, I see. Nothing less than I expected.

What makes us hypocrites?

 

[countdown]

Don't put words in my mouth, you pervert.

There is nothing retroactive about this. I believe that it should be a capital crime, and from the point that it becomes a crime, if someone chooses to break the law and participate in the act, they should receive the just punishment.

I can gurantee you that the behavior, and the promotion of that behavior will diminish, as it should.

Your problem is that YOU don't see homosexuality as an evil behavior, which proves that you have the mind of your father, the devil.

You are a false accuser, a slanderer, which is what the name satan means.

I did not say I approved, rather I said you are a hypocrite for calling for the death of fornicators of one sort while excusing fornicators and adulterers of other sorts, for those are all of one kind of sin which sinners do, and you are a sinner unclean, yourself, and brother to the worst infidel in your blaspheming and filthiness of words, calling down hell fire on those who do not believe your lies.

And you did say repentent homosexuals should be put to death, did you not?

 

[Lighthouse]

I often wonder how many of the people calling for the death of homosexuals have ever really tried to minister to them. I don't mean called them names, or even had one or two conversations. Sometimes ministering takes years.

Hey, lovemeorhateme! How many of us witnessed and ministered to you?

I have a lesbian friend who I've known for 22 years. She knows where I stand in regard to her lifestyle, but we still talk about all kinds of things, including Christ. When her father died, I was there to lend comfort. When she and her girlfriend broke up, again, I was there to lend comfort...not because I approved of the relationship. She knows I absolutely didn't. I was there because she was hurting, and it was an opportunity to gently remind her of God, while still holding the hand of my friend. She grew up in a Christian house, and I know somewhere in her, those beliefs are still alive. We've even talked about the struggle she has with knowing how she was raised versus how she's living now. My prayer is she will once again embrace those beliefs before her death. If she doesn't, then the Lord will weigh that. In the meantime, I'm doing what I can to point her in the right direction. I've never wavered on my perspective or compromised my beliefs...but I've also never given up on her, or (more importantly) on the power of the Holy Spirit.

Why is she still a lesbian? Have you ever rebuked her, or do you just tell her you don't approve?

 

[Lighthouse]

but that is what is done by many on this site, who use the Bible to call for death to fornicators while they are fornicators and have fornicated themselves.

Who is calling for the death of fornicators? God doesn't even do that.

 

[Lighthouse]

Please define "few". I've read over 100 posts by Mystery which violate the TOS and aren't even close to representing Christ. You don't need to eat every rotten apple off the tree to know the tree isn't bearing good fruit.

And Mystery has a post count of 4,123. Not to mention the posts he made under the screen names of Sozo and Outlaw.

And how do they violate the TOS? Give me one example. Just one.

 

[Mystery]

You are a false accuser, a slanderer, which is what the name satan means.

Go to hell, you lying pack of dung. YOU have been misrepresenting everyone including God since you came to this site. YOU have maliciously slandered and falsely accused many with your blatant lies, you Christ hating pig. You are an enemy of Jesus, and a demon.

I did not say I approved, rather I said you are a hypocrite for calling for the death of fornicators of one sort while excusing fornicators and adulterers of other sorts

I have excused no one, you have diarrhea of the mouth.

And you did say repentent homosexuals should be put to death, did you not?

IF homosexuality is a capital crime, and someone commits the act, they deserve the same punishment that a murderer, rapist, child molestor or adulteror deserves if they repent or not.

Someone's relationship with God has no bearing on whether or not they should be punished for their crimes.

The fact that you cannot comprehend that, proves what a complete and utter moron you really are.

:loser:

 

[Rusha]

Because God commanded that the government put them to death. Not civilians.:dunce::duh:

And thankfully the government disagrees with you.

 

[Mystery]

And thankfully the government disagrees with you.

Lighthouse is not God, you twit.

They disagree with God.

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm not in favor of murdering homosexual's, actually.

I'm not even in favor of the execution of homosexuals. But God is. Who am I to argue with the One who created us? He certainly knows better than I do.

 

[Lighthouse]

This thread is not about judgment, but also about condemning that sinner to death.

:sozo:IT'S NOT ABOUT SIN!

 

[countdown]

Who is calling for the death of fornicators? God doesn't even do that.

Read the Bible for a change and you will see that all sexual immorality is fornication, and if one is married and commits fornication, it is adultery.
Jude declares the sin of sodomy is fornication, as the angels who married human being women committed fornication as the men of Sodom and etc did. That is what the Word says, and you need to go read it for yourself and learn. Pornography -visual self stinmulation- is fornication of the same sort as sodomy is. You are as guilty as those you want a tyrannical government to put to death.
Under Moses, the citizens put the immoral law breakers to death, not the "government", and they did it under the priesthood. so you want a government to take Moses and apply it selectively -but not to yourself, who sinned equally as all sodomites do. You are an ignorant hypocrite.

 

[Lighthouse]

You need to take time to read the Word of God instead of sitting in your chair speaking lies against His Word.

What lies?

It was entirely the 'civilians' who put the adulterer and the homosexual and other lawbreakers to death, under Moses.

The civilians were certainly involved, but the government had to sentence them to death first.

You are seeking a tyrannical system of authority over this nation which will do the bidding of your hatred.

What hatred?

PS: Mystery thinks your father should be put to death. do you agree?

My father believes that what he did was worthy of the death penalty. So what?